VEMS Community Forum
Technical => Wiring & Sensors => Topic started by: vibor on September 15, 2014, 03:46:03 pm
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I am turbocharging my BMW e36 328 1996 180k done.
I have got most of hardware including VEMS 3.6 and ready to rock and roll in couple of weeks time.
I am able to figure out most of the connections and setups. Thanks to forum members, been reading a lot on this product.
I need help to understand what mode do I need to setup the ignition module based on the spec I have mentioned below for an E36 M52? E.g., COP..
Do I need to redo the ignition wiring?
I think the primary trigger is Hall for M52, I maybe wrong. If it is then what do I need to do to make it compatible with VEMS primary which is config as VR?
ECU VEMS V3 (v3.6 of 4 IGBT + 4 Logic):
4 + 4 ignition outputs
EGT input 1
Flyback HighZ-only 30V
Ignition driver 4
Knock input channels 0
LCD connection
MAP connection 400kPa (6/4mm pneumatic)
Primary_trigger EC36/27 VR
Secondary_trigger HALL
SDcard removable
1 x Standard 3 Port Boost Control Valve (b1)
v3 TwinShieldHarness:
1 x Wideband O2 sensor (LSU4)
1 x v3 TwinShieldHarness (T) custom length no
Injectors I6 with_relays
1 x red LCD cased (blueLCD4x20c)
2 x iButton (DS1990A)
1 x iButton reader (IRL1)
1 x Bluetooth-RS232 adapter (v1.0) with wire Wired-in 12V Dual USB Power Supply
1 x EGT sensor (K-type) (K-type)
PS2 connection
Available pins current on econoseal:
Econoseal 36 connector available pins
1 - TPS Signal
2 - IAT/MAT Signal
5 - GND
6 - Inj G
7 - Inj A
8 - Inj C
9 - Inj E
11 - Ign CH4, Logic level out on 6+2, 4+4, 2+6 and 0
14 - CLT Signal
15 - P259 CH5, Fuel Relay
16 - P259 CH1
17 - Inj H
18 - Inj F
19 - Inj B
20 - Inj D
21 - GND
22 - GND
23 - Flyback
25 - Supply +12V
26 - GND
27 - Primary trigger VR
28 - Supply +5V
29 - TPS Power (yellow)
32 - GND
33 - Ign CH1, Logic level out on 4+4, 2+6 and 0
35 - Ign CH0, Logic level out on 4+4, 2+6 and 0
Econoseal 18 connector available pins
7 - WBO2 pump +
9 - WBO2 pump -
13 - WBO2 Nerst Signal
14 - RS232DSUB9 pin3
15 - RS232DSUB9 pin2
17 - GND
18 - WBO2 Heater
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What's your location?
On the US M52 (e36 328) the triggers are Hall/Hall. The crank trigger has a factory defect though in that many of them only output around 2.5-3V, so they can be flaky. In my case, it worked flawlessly up to 2500rpm, and then the voltage dropped enough to not trigger logic high in the ECU, and many trigger errors. It doesn't work properly in the Motronic ECU all the time either.
To fix your triggers, it can be done, but I strongly recommend sending it to a repair center (me, if you're in the US) to get the primary trigger converted to Hall. You'll need at least 2 more ignition outputs converted to IGBT also if you're using the stock coils. I suggest all 8 ignition outputs as IGBT so you have two spares for IAC or boost solenoid, etc.
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Thxs Russell.
I am in Sydney and am more than happy to send the unit and harness to any part of the world to get it rectify.
I really need help on this. Can you PM me and we will take it from there.
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OBD1 motors in NA were VR/Hall, but OBD2 cars were Hall/VRish sensors for the Siemens ECU. Not sure if someone came up with compatibility yet in VEMS for it, but to be safe I suggest you swap that cam sensor for an OBD1 Hall sensor and all will be fine.
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I will keep that in mind to swap that cam sensor for an OBD1 Hall sensor, however I still have to rectify my circuit board to support the ignition setup for my car.
Anyone willing to help to redo and make changes on the circuit board for me?
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To fix your triggers, it can be done, but I strongly recommend sending it to a repair center (me, if you're in the US) to get the primary trigger converted to Hall. You'll need at least 2 more ignition outputs converted to IGBT also if you're using the stock coils. I suggest all 8 ignition outputs as IGBT so you have two spares for IAC or boost solenoid, etc.
I am in Sydney, is there anyway you can help me to mod the circuit board for me.
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I don´t have any wiring help for your M52 , is it Siemens ecu?
ETM is here , http://bmw-base.ru/ETM/1996%20BMW%20318is-c%20-%20320i%20-%20325i-c%20-%20328i-c%20%20Electrical%20Troubleshooting%20Manual.pdf
Should be able to work out what goes where, with your M52 trigger wheel you need to shift the ignition outputs one forward vs what is normal.
Rest is simply Single vanos wiring but the siemens pin numbers are quite different.
you can possibly copy some out of here or at least make some sense of it,
http://www.vems.hu/files/M50Turbo/VEMS_Vanos_M50_ETM_Guide.pdf
http://bmw-base.ru/ETM/1993%20BMW%20318i%20-%20318is%20-%20325i%20-%20325is%20%20Electrical%20Troubleshooting%20Manual.pdf
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Hello. I have vems in my E36 328 and i noticed that us version ms41.1 ecu have few differences in pinouts compared to euro version ms41.0 ecu. Please check which ecu do you have and maybe I can guide you to the right direction. I solved the crank trigger problem with m50 engines HALL sensor and adapter connector made from original sensors plug.
Regards: Anssi
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Hello. I have vems in my E36 328 and i noticed that us version ms41.1 ecu have few differences in pinouts compared to euro version ms41.0 ecu. Please check which ecu do you have and maybe I can guide you to the right direction. I solved the crank trigger problem with m50 engines HALL sensor and adapter connector made from original sensors plug.
Regards: Anssi
I checked and you were right mine is MS41.0 however I still haven't figure out the ignition wiring mods with respect to my current VEMS specs, that still is a concern area to match car's 6 cylinders to my VEMS 3 ignition channels, is a mystery. If you look at the specs I have posted in my first post you might know what I am saying. All I know is 6 cylinders 6 ignition wires and then you set them as sequential or batch fire.
About primary trigger, I have decided to swap the cam sensor for an OBD1.
Haven't got time yet to study the info posted by Gunni though.
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Rest is simply Single vanos wiring but the siemens pin numbers are quite different.
you can possibly copy some out of here or at least make some sense of it,
http://www.vems.hu/files/M50Turbo/VEMS_Vanos_M50_ETM_Guide.pdf
http://bmw-base.ru/ETM/1993%20BMW%20318i%20-%20318is%20-%20325i%20-%20325is%20%20Electrical%20Troubleshooting%20Manual.pdf
Went through the doc this weekend, quite a good info I have gathered.
In page no 4 of the doc, pin 21, 33, 11, 12, 24, 36 and 34 are used to config the ignitions. In my case I only have 21, 33, 11 available as stated in my first post.
Does that mean I have repair the gen board? Help please.
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Yes you put in more ignition outputs .
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Can anyone help me to add more ignition outputs to the board? I really want this thing to work for my project.
HELP!!!
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Are you willing to open the ecu and fit them yourself?
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Are you willing to open the ecu and fit them yourself?
Do I have other options? I don't want to see it going into the bin.
But worth giving it a try.
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Have a look here,
http://www.vems.hu/files/genboardv3/assembly/vems_v3_documentation.pdf
Buy some of these
https://shop.vems.hu/catalog/ignition-driver-p-49.html?osCsid=1cc81f1dd2f4d5edd5396b485c20e3cf
And fit them where ever you have the 4 logic shorts, just copy the other IGBT's you have installed. It´s quite easy really to do.
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Have a look here,
http://www.vems.hu/files/genboardv3/assembly/vems_v3_documentation.pdf
Buy some of these
https://shop.vems.hu/catalog/ignition-driver-p-49.html?osCsid=1cc81f1dd2f4d5edd5396b485c20e3cf
And fit them where ever you have the 4 logic shorts, just copy the other IGBT's you have installed. It´s quite easy really to do.
Thanks Gunni for the info, looks very encouraging.
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Pic on the left is my board and right is what I found as reference from wiki.
Knock circuit installation steps:
I got these instructions from this page: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard%2FManual%2FKnockSensor
1) Install knock chip (TPIC8101DW) in my board
2) Install 4MHz XTAL crystal (not sure up or down of the board, up being the chip side) in my board
GenBoard compare: http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah154/Victor_Maisnam/v33_vems_knock_components_zps86c65bb6.jpg
More ignitions installation steps:
Based on wiki info all I need to do is install:
1) Add 4 IGBTs (HGTP14N40F3VL or IRGB14L40C) in number 2, 3 5 and 6 in my board
GenBoard compare: http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah154/Victor_Maisnam/photo_zpsd33235ab.jpg
VR to HALL conversion steps:
Instruction from wiki says:
1) Remove solderblob from number 1 in my board
2) Solderblob in number 2 in my board
GenBoard compare: http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah154/Victor_Maisnam/Untitled_zpse298fdc3.png
My GenBoard:
- http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah154/Victor_Maisnam/photo1_zps431f0711.jpg
- http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah154/Victor_Maisnam/photo2_zps9e9d27dd.jpg
Can you guys please advice me if am doing it right before I fry the Genboard :)
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Unfortunately I had to drop the turbo project and went to supercharged my M52 with ARP2000, 0.14" HG, M50 intake and S52 cams at the moment.
It was a big decision to drop the turbo project as I couldn't find any decent RHD turbo manifold and yes I wanted the air con in the car since it is going to be a daily drive vehicle and it's hot in summer in Australia, blah blah..
So got a RMS supercharger kit couple weeks ago and in process of installation, so far no dramas.
Has anyone in here supercharged and VEMS for the tune? Would like to know pro and cons using VEMS in supercharger setup.
Sorry to hack this thread, couldn't find the right place to post.
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Unfortunately I had to drop the turbo project and went to supercharged my M52 with ARP2000, 0.14" HG, M50 intake and S52 cams at the moment.
It was a big decision to drop the turbo project as I couldn't find any decent RHD turbo manifold and yes I wanted the air con in the car since it is going to be a daily drive vehicle and it's hot in summer in Australia, blah blah..
So got a RMS supercharger kit couple weeks ago and in process of installation, so far no dramas.
Has anyone in here supercharged and VEMS for the tune? Would like to know pro and cons using VEMS in supercharger setup.
Sorry to hack this thread, couldn't find the right place to post.
using vems is like using any other ecu, no big difference in that :)
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Unfortunately I had to drop the turbo project and went to supercharged my M52 with ARP2000, 0.14" HG, M50 intake and S52 cams at the moment.
It was a big decision to drop the turbo project as I couldn't find any decent RHD turbo manifold and yes I wanted the air con in the car since it is going to be a daily drive vehicle and it's hot in summer in Australia, blah blah..
So got a RMS supercharger kit couple weeks ago and in process of installation, so far no dramas.
Has anyone in here supercharged and VEMS for the tune? Would like to know pro and cons using VEMS in supercharger setup.
Sorry to hack this thread, couldn't find the right place to post.
No different then tuning a turbo setup, only no need for boost control.
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Unfortunately I had to drop the turbo project and went to supercharged my M52 with ARP2000, 0.14" HG, M50 intake and S52 cams at the moment.
It was a big decision to drop the turbo project as I couldn't find any decent RHD turbo manifold and yes I wanted the air con in the car since it is going to be a daily drive vehicle and it's hot in summer in Australia, blah blah..
So got a RMS supercharger kit couple weeks ago and in process of installation, so far no dramas.
Has anyone in here supercharged and VEMS for the tune? Would like to know pro and cons using VEMS in supercharger setup.
Sorry to hack this thread, couldn't find the right place to post.
I have a VEMS + supercharged setup. I've had a few problems but they were my bad, not the VEMS. You can learn from my mistakes.
I'm in Australia too. PM me if you like.