VEMS Community Forum
Technical => Ignition => Topic started by: [email protected] on March 07, 2008, 11:21:23 am
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Using the Stepper Motor Driver to control Ignition
In some cases it has been found that we need to drive external ignition amplifiers (ignitors) using the higher current stepper motor driver.
The wires must be swapped from the Ingition pins on the EC36 plug and moved to the EC18 plug as follow
Coil 00 EC36-pin35 to Stepper A EC18-pin4
Coil 01 EC36-pin33 to Stepper B EC18-pin10
Coil 02 EC36-pin34 to Stepper C EC18-pin5
Coil 03 EC36-pin36 to Stepper D EC18-pin11
Enable the Stepper Motor Driver
First we need to enable the Stepper motor output by setting the S259 ch7 output to be permanently on using the waterpump activation.
Go to Extras->Fan / Water Pump / FuelPump and set the water pump Start Temperature to -40 (its default) and its channel to S259 7
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSUserManual/MTEnableStepper.png)
This activates the Stepper chip
Configure Ingition Outputs
Now we change the ignition outputs Settings->Ignition Outputs from the EC36 pins to their corresponding EC18 pins.
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSUserManual/MTIgnitionOutputsOriginal.png)
So that the coil drivers are mapped to the pins correctly, reflecting the wiring changes made above.
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSUserManual/MTIgnitionOutputsChanged.png)
Wasted Spark
If you're interested in making life easier for yourself, or for running 6 and 8 cylinder engines using the Stepper Driver then wasted spark is answer.
First work out your injector pairing:
Four Cylinder
In a 1-3-4-2 engine, cylinders 1&4 and 3&2 can be fired at the same time.
So you connect the wires for cylinders:
1&4 to Stepper A EC18-pin4
3&2 to Stepper B EC18-pin10
Six Cylinder
In a 1-5-3-6-2-4 engine, cylinders 1&6, 5&2 and 3&4 can be fired at the same time.
1&6 to Stepper A EC18-pin4
5&2 to Stepper B EC18-pin10
3&4 to Stepper C EC18-pin5
Eight Cylinder
In a 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2 engine, cylinders 1&6, 8&5, 7&4 and 3&2 can be fired at the same time.
1&6 to Stepper A EC18-pin4
8&5 to Stepper B EC18-pin10
7&4 to Stepper C EC18-pin5
3&2 to Stepper B EC18-pin11
Configure Ingition Outputs
Ensure that the Stepper Motor Driver is enabled as above. Then configure the outputs, using the Four Cylinder example as above the
Go to Settings->Ignition Outputs and set the sequence:
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSUserManual/MTIgnitionOutputsWasted.png)
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Funny, I've used stepper outputs and it never needed the water pump trick? I just changed to stepper outputs and they work like a charm.
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Newer versions 1.0.73 and 1.1.18 have the stepper enabled by default, why this wasn't always the case is a mystery.
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Newer versions 1.0.73 and 1.1.18 have the stepper enabled by default, why this wasn't always the case is a mystery.
Ok, got it!
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just to sort things out as it is not self explaining...
some ignition amplifiers want a +12v signal right?
standard coils that we power with vems get grounded by ignition drivers built in vems (igbt) and +12v via fuse.
the so called logic level drivers when we dont want igbt drivers for ignition gives a +5v (very weak) signal?
what im getting at... is the stepper out +12v?
been using some msd coils that wants + signal. tried logic level it worked sort of, got some misfires and ecu just died, reset and worked again. is stepper the answer?
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Yes, some igniters want a +12V signal to trigger them.
The Nissan S13 coil igniters are happy with +5V, the Nissan S14 coil igniters don't do anything with +5V and only work with +12V.
Do you have any spec for the MSD coils?
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msd coils: http://www.msdignition.com/product.aspx?id=5089&terms=8245
what i was getting at... is the s259 +12v? (all i really wanted to know for sure)
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Yes the stepper provides +12V
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What about VW COP's from the VEMS shop? Do they need +12V or can work on week +5V?
Do I need to put the resistor on the input?
(http://www.vems.hu/files/COILS_COPS_etc/vw_cop_06b905115e_sch.gif)
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I will answer myself. It wouldn't work od +5V. After connecting it to Stepper A and B, it worked just fine.
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Cool, did you use a resistor?
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No. dwell time is 1.5ms.
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Yes the stepper provides +12V
is this right ?
/Skassa
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Yes, it is a push-pull output.
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Sorry to highjack,...
Will this maybe solve my High boost misfire on AAN with LS2 UrS4/S6 Plug and Play Coil Kit ? How would I setup in 1.1.88?
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Hi Rob
Do I do all the wiring changes for the 5 cyl AAN as per your example for the 4 cyl. i.e.
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The wires must be swapped from the Ingition pins on the EC36 plug and moved to the EC18 plug as follow
Coil 00 EC36-pin35 to Stepper A EC18-pin4
Coil 01 EC36-pin33 to Stepper B EC18-pin10
Coil 02 EC36-pin34 to Stepper C EC18-pin5
Coil 03 EC36-pin36 to Stepper D EC18-pin11
******************************************************
Must I assign a “Coil 05 EC36-pinxx to Stepper E EC18-pinXX ??? for the 5th coil.
How does the fact that I have the motronic 55 plug influence things?
For the assignments:
************************************************************
Now we change the ignition outputs Settings->Ignition Outputs from the EC36 pins to their corresponding EC18 pins.
So that the coil drivers are mapped to the pins correctly, reflecting the wiring changes made above.
Do I just assign in sequence old: i.e. 54231 to same sequence EDBCA
Or can the stepper outputs not be used for the 5 cyl AAN?
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Any news about that? I'm curious about that too. How to use stepper chip to drive active VAG cops in 5 cylinder engine? Is it possible or should I reconfigure my board to have 2+6 ignition outputs?
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This I also need to know!!!
I have no output to no.3 cylinder
I was also looking if I need to convert to 2x6 output
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You will have to use one stepper output to drive two coils that are far apart in the ignition order
Out of these : 1-2-4-5-3
I would pick 3 and 4, or 3 and 2 to use the same output.
Or do what I did yesterday, started an AAN with the last coil on EC36-pin12 (ignition output 5), with the IGBT removed and the logic signal wired to the output pin. Halfed the current limiting resistor with another 510 Ohm in parallel soldered on top, comes with the "rescue kit" bag with every ECU.
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Ok thanks for the answer,I was looking how to wire it as a wasted spark but thought different being 5 cylinder,to be fair my ecu was supplyd be pNanasy and I didn't get any more parts ie "the rescue kit"
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So, in the config,if I had coil3 connected to coil4,how would I assign the outputs???abded??
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So, in the config,if I had coil3 connected to coil4,how would I assign the outputs???abded??
Yup.
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Thanks,I will give it a go
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Sorry to reply to an old post like this...
But i have a small question about a v6 coil pack (will be used on a straight 6)
There are 4 pins on the pack ....pin 4 needs a +12V...the rest is for the coils.
Can i use the stepper 4,10 and 5 for the rest of it?
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There are two types, with active type you can, with passive/dummy you cannot. Test the coil which input it needs, first of all measure its input resistance.
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i got this one
(http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1736320572/VAUXHALL-OPEL-OMEGA-VECTRA-V6-IGNITION-MODULE-COIL-PACK-1994-2001-0221503010-1208007-90511450-90452255-DMB848.jpg)
Have not measured yet, the car is not at my house.
I believe pin number 4 needs a 12V and the rest are grounds wich needs to be switch with the ecu.
Also i need to connect a idle control valve, 2 wires.....
(http://www.bmwe36blog.com/images/sensors/icv-idle-control-valve-bmw-e36.jpg)
Those two things are the only things im not sure about on how they get connected to the vems. Im using an universal wiring harnas for a 6 cylinder. Nothing fancy, just a simple engine without a turbo
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That coil cannot be driven from stepper output, it needs IGBT output.
Also that idle valve needs injector/ignition output.
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Hi All, its been a long time since i needed to enquire on here, so excuse my ignorance, but i'm resurrecting an old VEMS SR20DET project... My standard nissan COPs are currently driven via the Stepper motor driver (and via the Stock ignitor) but they are now showing signs of failure, so my question is...
Can someone confirm if the VAG COPs (i have some NGK R8 U5014 available) can be driven by the same stepper outputs with no modifications? (with the stock ignitor removed of course).
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Hi All, its been a long time since i needed to enquire on here, so excuse my ignorance, but i'm resurrecting an old VEMS SR20DET project... My standard nissan COPs are currently driven via the Stepper motor driver (and via the Stock ignitor) but they are now showing signs of failure, so my question is...
Can someone confirm if the VAG COPs (i have some NGK R8 U5014 available) can be driven by the same stepper outputs with no modifications? (with the stock ignitor removed of course).
yes