VEMS Community Forum
VEMS => Software => Topic started by: Denmark on November 28, 2009, 05:49:59 pm
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Maybe this could be a "nice to have features request thread".
Here is my first, other then the dropdown trigger setup for subaru trigger pattern.
Is it diffecult to make the rpm limit temp related, as this is a extreme nice way to protect the engine.
make try to DL the link program
http://www.linkecu.com/support/downloads/pclink-download
To see how it is setup on this , nice feature,
In PC link you can open a base map, so you can see how it fuction with a driveble map from all the selecteble cars, that´s how it supposed to be :)
/Skassa
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I hope to see some things from what Andrey already use in his own car:
stepless camshaft control. For two cams if possible. And with two hardware control types: pwm (subaru), H-bridge (VW 1.8T, BMW M-engines)
simple traction control based on driven and non driven wheel difference.
Both things would lead to revolutionary Versatility. :)
Gints
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DTA-s have a dyno box with two potentiometer knobs for fuel and ignition advance, and button to save tuned values for the chosed cell of tables. And the interpolating is switchable off, when Ecu use the nearest cell values.
Any similar feature and cheap device would be fine for dyno mappping.
http://www.dtafast.co.uk/Downloads/Manuals/S%20Series%20Manual.pdf (http://www.dtafast.co.uk/Downloads/Manuals/S%20Series%20Manual.pdf)
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DTA-s have a dyno box with two potentiometer knobs for fuel and ignition advance, and button to save tuned values for the chosed cell of tables. And the interpolating is switchable off, when Ecu use the nearest cell values.
Any similar feature and cheap device would be fine for dyno mappping.
http://www.dtafast.co.uk/Downloads/Manuals/S%20Series%20Manual.pdf (http://www.dtafast.co.uk/Downloads/Manuals/S%20Series%20Manual.pdf)
I have found the 3D tuning maps in Megatune VERY quick to tune on the dyno. My dyno man just looks atthe screen at to find the throttle position relative to the map holds it there while I increase or decrease to bring lambda in line with target lamda, giving time to verify the readings, then move on to the next point. I managed to map all the points from 2k up to 5k in less than half an hour. After that we tuned the full throttle points only and extrapolated the rest.
I have yet to try any 3d tuning in Vemstune, as it needs an amount of re learn on my part.
On subject
I would like to see, to name a few ;D
At least one expensive Misc output (as in 1.1.47)
Simple engine check output (similar to 1.1.47)
Second wideband chanel for monitoring ONLY
Configurable delay power off function for electric waterpump and fan run on (similar to fuel pump control)
PWM electric water pump 'temperature' control
And for an exoctic release, siamese code in a similar vain to latest megasquirt code.
I think that is about it ;D :D ;)
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Audi signal dash output for ABY / ADU / AAN would complete VEMS IMO
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What about an output function test menue?
Using DTA for example. You can test the injectors and the coils for functionality. The software pulses the injectors at an increasing rate, then starts over. Very usefull to find sticking injectors, especialy if they have been recently cleaned, and injectors that flood the engine
Example of DTA testing http://www.youtube.com/user/16vKVan#p/u/16/oTGenScQ8uc And they do the same with the ignition. Lots of warnings and safety built into the software so you dont blow up the engine or yourself :D
Another simple feature. LEDs to show which outputs are on or off.
Not asking for much am I :D
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CAN bus/OB11 compatible would be nice,
possibly make fault finding a bit easier with a code reader.
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The testing part is already being made at this moment, screen shot from latest development...
Will also be made for injector outputs
(http://media.vems.se/images/igntest.png)
Regarding the enabled outputs being shown will take some more thought, but i'd say its a good idea, just won't be finished soon..
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Cool!!!!! :)
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Excellent progress Emil.
That testing thing will be very useful for people doing trouble shooting.
How about Setting the ignition output window so people can input their firing order or select it from a drop down menu.
Then just select wire outputs as things are wired to coils and the software does the rest??
This traversed backwards stuff is and never has been a good idea. In my opinion at least.
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The testing thing is already there for the ignition if you can use a Term program. Would be nice to see it work for the injectors too though, and GUIs win over terminals every day. :)
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The testing thing is already there for the ignition if you can use a Term program. Would be nice to see it work for the injectors too though,
I did not think you could pulse the ignition outputs using the terminal program in the way you can with DTA, I dont know, but that is the point, only a few people know, and that there is the problem :-\
and GUIs win over terminals every day. :)
Totaly agree :)
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Righto
I have suffered engine failure while on N2O. The reason is not yet known other than the engine ran shockingly lean while on NOS. This was not intentional and I suspect a blocked fuel jet as it had just been retuned and had been running for about an hour no problems.
Anyway, this got me thinking about the warning light output. I could perhaps use this to kill the N2O when the lambda even hinted at going lean, at full throttle. It looks like everything is there to do this. However, there doesnt look like there is anything latching. Basicaly I dont want the N2O to come back in again when the lambda recovers, so perhaps there could be one additional field for 'reset on rpm below' so if that was set for say 100rpm, it would mean you would have to turn the engine off to reset it. Not such a bad thing when it could save the engine, especialy when you know what it meant at full throttle with N2O active
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Righto
I have suffered engine failure while on N2O. The reason is not yet known other than the engine ran shockingly lean while on NOS. This was not intentional and I suspect a blocked fuel jet as it had just been retuned and had been running for about an hour no problems.
Anyway, this got me thinking about the warning light output. I could perhaps use this to kill the N2O when the lambda even hinted at going lean, at full throttle. It looks like everything is there to do this. However, there doesnt look like there is anything latching. Basicaly I dont want the N2O to come back in again when the lambda recovers, so perhaps there could be one additional field for 'reset on rpm below' so if that was set for say 100rpm, it would mean you would have to turn the engine off to reset it. Not such a bad thing when it could save the engine, especialy when you know what it meant at full throttle with N2O active
you can make to that, when warning is active then to switch to config B(like safe map) when you don't have N20 enabled.
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Righto
I have suffered engine failure while on N2O. The reason is not yet known other than the engine ran shockingly lean while on NOS. This was not intentional and I suspect a blocked fuel jet as it had just been retuned and had been running for about an hour no problems.
Anyway, this got me thinking about the warning light output. I could perhaps use this to kill the N2O when the lambda even hinted at going lean, at full throttle. It looks like everything is there to do this. However, there doesnt look like there is anything latching. Basicaly I dont want the N2O to come back in again when the lambda recovers, so perhaps there could be one additional field for 'reset on rpm below' so if that was set for say 100rpm, it would mean you would have to turn the engine off to reset it. Not such a bad thing when it could save the engine, especialy when you know what it meant at full throttle with N2O active
you can make to that, when warning is active then to switch to config B(like safe map) when you don't have N20 enabled.
So the warning light is already latching?
if so i could just use the above thory to disable the n20 rather tha changing the whole config?
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You can use double relaz to disable N20 with warning chanel.
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Gauge group editor
In Vemstune it would be nice to be able to introduce a 'Curve' such as Warmup enrichment curve, or PWM/ Stepper refference curve, into a 'Gauge Group', much in the way you can with a 'Table'
??
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Hi
An input for registering that the ac compressor is on, and use it for increasing the IAC duty cycle. Preferably IAT compensated as the normal IAC operation.
Regards Leif-Helge
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Please :)
Can you make gauge to show a raw values from the knock signal?
THANKS A LOT :)
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Would it be reasonable to be able to change the road speed from KPH to MPH for those of use in the US? Besides just changing the frequency... I'm sure you programmers are already busy but I thought I would toss the idea out there.
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It shouldnt be much of an issue as the ECU will only be interested in pulse count - the unit of measurement is a human thing and should be in the tuning app
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It would be good if Vemstune submenu-"Injector group table" has implemented some timer
to check static injectors flow (15s, 30s and 60s). This feature will help as to check injectors flow
in real car. Injector Trim menu already exist. It'll be best if we can check dynamic flow as well.
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"Lean Protect"
A fuel cut function, ideally defined in an 8x8 map of RPM vs MAP.
The maximum lambda for any given MAP/RPM is defined. If lambda goes over this threshold, cut fuel, or spark, or something.
Basically you define the alarm level at which, if the engine is too lean vs a certain boost level, we know something something is seriously wrong. Would be nice to have a "lean protect" flag so the event is logged.
This would be to protect from things like a fuel pressure regulator vaccuum line rupturing, fuel filter or pump issue, etc. Also an extra safety for people running methanol or nitrous in the event something clogs or whatever.
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VEMS has configurable warning light. Also for lean condition under load. Defined by lambda error.
Never on the public road or on the track engine cut off is not used. But you can try this output for switching something off. Fuel pump, boost solenoid, ignition... However it is not recommended due to safety. Boost solenoid cut is safe.
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VEMS has configurable warning light. Also for lean condition under load. Defined by lambda error.
Never on the public road or on the track engine cut off is not used. But you can try this output for switching something off. Fuel pump, boost solenoid, ignition... However it is not recommended due to safety. Boost solenoid cut is safe.
Thanks you sir! I missed the fact that the lambda setting for the warning light was actually error!!
That will basically do what I need! Cheers!
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A second wideband chanel function. Monitoring only, no closed loop control.
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A second wideband chanel function. Monitoring only, no closed loop control.
That won't happen with the v3 hardware, but you can connect something to an analog input and log that.
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A second wideband chanel function. Monitoring only, no closed loop control.
That won't happen with the v3 hardware, but you can connect something to an analog input and log that.
Fair enough :) I did think about logging the 5v. 5v is fine, but it is raw.
Ok what about this for an idea, and I am just shooting here:D what about having a configurable point for 'External Lambda Input', using a fixed, non configurable default 'Vems WBO2' scale. just a simple enable/ disable config point and an 'External lambda' gauge in group editor. IE, connect a Vems WBO2 gauge 5v out, to a spare V3 ADC in chanel, enable the 'External Lambda Input', select the chanel, then add the External Lambda Gauge in Group Editor.
the result would be two lambda gauges in a tuning window that have the same scale, and look the same, as if it were all one product.
I think this could be a selling point mainly for the Vee engines with two headers! We already have individual ignitionand injector trim. As a bonus the WBo2 gauge will also act as a display for the AIM data
The hardware is sorted, Vems V3 and Vems round WBO2, sorted! Full engine management with second wideband and dash display :) in two products!
You sell the product, now it's time to integrate them ;)
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I would love to have the sdcard logging on always, and always owerwrite the oldest,
so it would start every time the car is started with date and time if possible, so if anything happens, i can always connect the laptop and show the latest log.
Is this something that could be possible?
/Skassa
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A second wideband chanel function. Monitoring only, no closed loop control.
That won't happen with the v3 hardware, but you can connect something to an analog input and log that.
Fair enough :) I did think about logging the 5v. 5v is fine, but it is raw.
Ok what about this for an idea, and I am just shooting here:D what about having a configurable point for 'External Lambda Input', using a fixed, non configurable default 'Vems WBO2' scale. just a simple enable/ disable config point and an 'External lambda' gauge in group editor. IE, connect a Vems WBO2 gauge 5v out, to a spare V3 ADC in chanel, enable the 'External Lambda Input', select the chanel, then add the External Lambda Gauge in Group Editor.
the result would be two lambda gauges in a tuning window that have the same scale, and look the same, as if it were all one product.
I think this could be a selling point mainly for the Vee engines with two headers! We already have individual ignitionand injector trim. As a bonus the WBo2 gauge will also act as a display for the AIM data
The hardware is sorted, Vems V3 and Vems round WBO2, sorted! Full engine management with second wideband and dash display :) in two products!
You sell the product, now it's time to integrate them ;)
2nd this
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I would love to have the sdcard logging on always, and always owerwrite the oldest,
so it would start every time the car is started with date and time if possible, so if anything happens, i can always connect the laptop and show the latest log.
Is this something that could be possible?
/Skassa
I second this. I would like the option to use an RPM/MAP setting to activate the Logging.
For example, only log over 3,500 rpm on drag racing cars.
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A realtime clock has been discussed, and is possible with the current hardware only it needs a battery as well.
Skassa: I think what you're looking for could just as easily be implemented in the computer software, to selectively download and filter the data.
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Mattias, do you mean in vemstune, or on the laptop?.
This was meant to be inside the vems, so that at any time can connect my laptop to any vems ecu and see a log of the last runs,
meaning that i do not want the laptop inside the car when running, but this would mostly be so i can see what happend before the costumers engine blew up :), if that would ever happen ;)
/Skassa
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Sorry, I misunderstood.
Skassa: To have time and date, you need a realtime clock inside the ECU - which is why I meant this is possible with current hardware.
lugnuts: Filtering the data is best done with VemsTune and the interface could be made to automatically select the latest log, download and filter it to get only the data you want.
Of course, setting limits in the ECU is doable as well.
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Cylinder head temperature sensing for air-cooled applications: enrichment similar to CLT, but with retardation and reduced boost if the temp exceeds a threshold.
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Cylinder head temperature sensing for air-cooled applications: enrichment similar to CLT, but with retardation and reduced boost if the temp exceeds a threshold.
that can you done with any trim.
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Can we log knock channel data with any of the recent firwares?
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Can we log knock channel data with any of the recent firwares?
It is very important!!! In MT era it was possible to log noise and signal. Even with not working knock control it was usable feature to verify what you hear (or not hear) in headphones.
Regading ECU itself now I see just two main features what should be reworked: injector lag time compensation and knock control system.
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Can we log knock channel data with any of the recent firwares?
It is very important!!! In MT era it was possible to log noise and signal. Even with not working knock control it was usable feature to verify what you hear (or not hear) in headphones.
Regading ECU itself now I see just two main features what should be reworked: injector lag time compensation and knock control system.
Exactly! I'm not even tat worried about knock control/ignition retard algorithms, just being able to log the raw knock signal/knock diff would be very helpful.
This is a feature that VEMS is typically "marketed" as having, but in reality it does not, which is very unfortunate.
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Don't worry, news and info regarding knock control will come very soon. Some nice changes are being merged with the main development branch.
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Don't worry, news and info regarding knock control will come very soon. Some nice changes are being merged with the main development branch.
Looking forward to that !
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Mattias, please comment little more!
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Don't worry, news and info regarding knock control will come very soon. Some nice changes are being merged with the main development branch.
Awesome!
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Don't worry, news and info regarding knock control will come very soon. Some nice changes are being merged with the main development branch.
I noticed in the notes for the currently being tested firmware 1.1.88 it says:
"compiled with KNOCK_ALTERNATIVE defined (so the knock amplitude threshold is configurable per loadsite)."
;D
I guess this means knock functionality will make a return in the near future!?
Yay!
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Would be great!
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The knock code is in the most recent firmware and right now VemsTune is getting menus and documentation to properly support it. There is also work on a live VE analyzer, the latest release contains an early version.
We have started to hunt down a few bugs and issues with performance as well, log viewer being one of them, and the other being workarounds for bad drivers (ATI chipsets suck) and that will take some code profiling to hunt down properly.
Later this week we're adding more documentation to dialogs.
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Doesn't latest VT from January contains necesary dialogs?
I yesterday tried 1.1.88 on the bench. But did not get any knock noises or retards. I feed 2V AC 3....15kHz (sweeping) signals in knock sensors inputs.
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I must say - the overall performance and stability of VT, especially the datalog aspect, has improved a lot over the last couple revisions, great work work guys!
I checked out the autotune system and also trued using the tune by statistics feature that has existed for a while (I am one of those ex-megasquirt users who has always used MLV's VE analyze). It's a bit prone to lean things out too much, but admittedly so it MLV. I think I will make the VE targets slightly richer than what I actually want to compensate. No big deal at all. :)
Shame Gints didn't see any knock signals, but i steel feel very optimistic, just the fact that it's being mentioned in the firmware notes is a very good sign that we will have something relatively soon.
The 2 major things I would still like to see added to the datalog view are goos hot keys for zoom in/out on the x axis - either up/down arrow, or ctrl+ up/down arrow or something.
It would also be nice if it scaled the y axis automatically based on the highest value in the log for each field.
It's definitely getting better though!
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Have added a request to implement firmware and hardware support for the GM ECA sensor (flex fuel) for live E85 adjustments:
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard%2FUnderDevelopment%2FFirmWare
I think it would be beneficial, and since the Anytrim code is already in place a proper implementation would be not too far off (software/firmware wise).
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Have added a request to implement firmware and hardware support for the GM ECA sensor (flex fuel) for live E85 adjustments:
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard%2FUnderDevelopment%2FFirmWare
I think it would be beneficial, and since the Anytrim code is already in place a proper implementation would be not too far off (software/firmware wise).
What is necessary for that? IMHO just predefined curve for fueltrim. Something else?
From some signal level you can switch over config with different spark table if you want.
Have you some datasheet of flexfuel sensor?
Gints
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You would want a correction for spark advance as well.
What some systems do, is it is dual maps, you tune a gasoline map, then you tun an ethanol map. The EMS then linearly interpolates between the ethanol map and the gasoline map based on the actual ethanol content.
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Long shot; but how about Android integration via bluetooth so that vemstune can be accessed on the go without the need to carry a laptop. Recent article on gizmodo.com got my attention http://gizmodo.com/5800436/androids-new-hacker-dream-adk-makes-anything-an-accessory (http://gizmodo.com/5800436/androids-new-hacker-dream-adk-makes-anything-an-accessory)
"Great news for tinkerers (and those who like their toys)—Google's announced what they're calling an "ADK," allowing hardware devs to team up with software wizards to create DIY "open accessories." Arduino-based, the tech will Android-ify anything you want.
Take, for example, Google's Android-connected exercise bike, which pumped heart rate data from the cycle to the phone mid-exercise, or the fun demo of a labyrinth marble game tilt-controlled with an Android tablet. This is a hacker's fantasy—a board that'll integrate an Android device with... whatever they can stick it into. Powerful stuff, and fertile dirt for crazily inventive minds.
The control board's USB only for now, but Bluetooth support is on the way. Essentially, the DIY crowd will now be able to supercharge their projects with Android-powered on-screen info, remote controls, or whatever else they can imagine. There won't be any fees or licenses required to tinker, so we expect some serious creativity to blast out of the ADK—git yet soldering irons ready."
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You mean two separate things? Hardware for bluetooth and app for Android?
I am little sceptic about second one. Is it really necessary? Tuning device with no normal size keyboard IMHO is useless for tuning. Road tuning and dyno tuning as well.
Just for datalogging? Yes! I'd like to get some datalogs from distant customers this way.
But anyway even with good app hardware problem stay. It is hard to obtain even simple USB-serial cable in some areas....
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The ability to datalog and access live VE auto tuning would work really well for my situation, can't speak for others. Securing a laptop in fibreglass single skin seat with a 5-point harness is a nightmare, having a small device in pocket or stuck to the dash would improve useability and diagnostics on the go.
Bluetooth is a nice to have; most new smartphones are now using micro USB connectors so connecting them to a serial post is in therory possible (I've experienced problems myself with usb to serial, so appreciate the view).
Has anyone tried serial to bluetooth on a laptop? devices are out there and getting cheaper.
Edit: Looks like Seight-v8 has found a possible device on another thread: about £55 delivered and can be powered by 5v: http://www.osoo.co.uk/LM_Technologies_3Mbps_100_Meter_Mini_RS232_Bluetooth_Serial_Adaptor%28204389%29.aspx (http://www.osoo.co.uk/LM_Technologies_3Mbps_100_Meter_Mini_RS232_Bluetooth_Serial_Adaptor%28204389%29.aspx)
Very temped to give it a go for laptop use, getting the wires firmly tucked away would be a nice improvement.
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Just bought one, I'll let you all know in a couple of days if it does the job!
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warm up additional ignition advance
For example
Two refference points for additional warm up ignition advance
Cold advance added
Max temp for cold advance
(the temperature at which additional ignition advance starts to ramp down from the desired value, to a fixed zero additional advance at a fixed 70c warm temp)
And two points for scaling
Scaler for RPM> RPM value at which the additional warm up advance reaches zero.
Scaler for KPA> KPA value at which the aditional warm up advance reaches zero. (throttle position for alpha N)
(The additional advance is reduced to zero at the two configurable RPM and KPA points)
This has a few benefits, but the two that spring to mind are faster warm up due to the hotter cylinder temps and increasing cold idle speed.
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Any chance a new software for Android is in the works? Having a dash mounted Touchpad or IPad for gauges or whatever would be great.
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I don't know if the developers get these stuff we write here but a nice feature would be selective cylinder cut off for fuel economy.
i.e. when it is activated 2 cylinder will be cutted off for fuel economy reasons. This system is easy to implement and is not only found in bit V8 engines but also in small ones like the new VW Polo blue GT that is 1.4 liter I4. when the system is on it shuts off cylinder 2 and 3.
It should work within:
A certain (adjustable) RPM range i.e. from 1200-3000 RPM
certain MAP range i.e. from 40-80KPA
Wheelspeed signal
gives the possibility of cylinder selection or certain cylinder pattern.
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I don't know if the developers get these stuff we write here but a nice feature would be selective cylinder cut off for fuel economy.
i.e. when it is activated 2 cylinder will be cutted off for fuel economy reasons. This system is easy to implement and is not only found in bit V8 engines but also in small ones like the new VW Polo blue GT that is 1.4 liter I4. when the system is on it shuts off cylinder 2 and 3.
It should work within:
A certain (adjustable) RPM range i.e. from 1200-3000 RPM
certain MAP range i.e. from 40-80KPA
Wheelspeed signal
gives the possibility of cylinder selection or certain cylinder pattern.
Wou can do that with config switch. I did that and i was very disappointment with fuel savings. What i find, mechanical losses are very big i crusing area, not thermal.
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Also disabling do not remove pumping loses. I remember Mercedes V12 used something what lock valve operation for those cylinders with purpose to eliminate pumping looses.
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This is not only a cheap software thing. I don't know how Lexus have done it but you probably need to get the exhaust valve closed and in the intake one opened for the full cycle.
As for me, a minimal feature to start with would be to get the changelog file of the firmware version regularly updated (no change since 2008) ;). This is standard. A regular firmware changelog would save a lot of time to the whole Vems earth. The second step would be a wikishrunk ;D
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I don't know if the developers get these stuff we write here but a nice feature would be selective cylinder cut off for fuel economy.
i.e. when it is activated 2 cylinder will be cutted off for fuel economy reasons. This system is easy to implement and is not only found in bit V8 engines but also in small ones like the new VW Polo blue GT that is 1.4 liter I4. when the system is on it shuts off cylinder 2 and 3.
It should work within:
A certain (adjustable) RPM range i.e. from 1200-3000 RPM
certain MAP range i.e. from 40-80KPA
Wheelspeed signal
gives the possibility of cylinder selection or certain cylinder pattern.
Wou can do that with config switch. I did that and i was very disappointment with fuel savings. What i find, mechanical losses are very big i crusing area, not thermal.
I see what you mean but that would be something that would need constant changing of configs i.e. when you need to overtake ect.
It also seems that all newer design lock valves ect in order to maintain cylinder pressure.
The other nice thing to have would be a working OEM like knock sensing with listening window ect + a guide to set it up correctly. ;D
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You can change configs with tps(more than 50%) or with map...
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You can change configs with tps(more than 50%) or with map...
How can this be done? Though the analog input setting for channel 6 where I have the config switch input?
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Billman You can set config switch to work with Misc 1 outputs so you could switch by map, speed etc
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Ability to have the same number of cells and values (load vs RPM) used for both VE and ignition (i.e. 16x14), combine this with different short cut keys to advance/retard ignition compared to increase/decrease fuelling would make mapping on a rolling road significantly quicker i.e. set ignition using QWER and VE using ASDF with both tables displayed at the same time.
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Full Android functionality! Nice to be able to make changes and save config on android when PC is not available.
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Ability to have the same number of cells and values (load vs RPM) used for both VE and ignition (i.e. 16x14), combine this with different short cut keys to advance/retard ignition compared to increase/decrease fuelling would make mapping on a rolling road significantly quicker i.e. set ignition using QWER and VE using ASDF with both tables displayed at the same time.
Then you have to tune 3 tables at once and all should be equal size: VE, IgnAdvance, Lambda.
For finding the edge on the dyno using your idea Lambda and Advance should be equal size... And then boost and cam advance...
Current praxis is to tune VE first with conservative advance and lambda. It is automated tune usually. And only after that advance together with small and because of that easy to set Lambda table.
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This depends on your tuning technique; the rolling road I use set all the Lambda cells before tuning then rough tuned the VE, set the ignition then final tune of the VE. This meant going through three tables hitting each cell to complete the job.
If we had been able to do ignition and VE in parallel it would have taken half the time. This was for an Alpha-N build, it might be different for MAP.
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100% scaleble analog input curve
For example, instead of fixed voltage scales against configurable temperature scales as in Analog Input Calibration 'Custom Temperature Curve', what about configurable voltage scales also? 'Custom Sensor Curve' is not very versatile, as it only seems to be dedicated to temperature.
This would make calibrating MAF 'air flow' against 'voltage' much easier.
Reason. I propose to use a freely available Bosch MAF sensor on the tubocharger compressor inlet. Adding MAF sensor on inlet tract of compressor is simple. MAF against MAP will then give compressor speed and efficiency when plotted on the compressor map. Some Bosch MAF sensors have good documentation giving good scaling data that will allow for a fairly acurate measurement. with this I would determine compressor efficiencies without the need to use expensive turbine tachometers or calculating BSFC then working back from dyno hp readings, which we all know can be optimistic.
I am not suggesting using MAF as a dedicated sesnor in fueling strategy, just simply MAF logging in real time with known sensor scales.
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Why not a velocity sensor? i.e a pitot tube sensor that outputs pressure difference between the static and dynamic pressure.
knowing the pipe size you´ll know the volume flow.
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PWM and a RPM ref curve in the nitrous control section would be VERY handy.
Being able to cut and paste sections of VE/IGN tables would be helpful at times when trying previous setup maps for idle, cruise and overrun settings or others midrange fuelling to aid spool without having to go back to all the old fuelling throughout the whole table or write what you want on piece of paper. ;D
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100% scaleble analog input curve
For example, instead of fixed voltage scales against configurable temperature scales as in Analog Input Calibration 'Custom Temperature Curve', what about configurable voltage scales also? 'Custom Sensor Curve' is not very versatile, as it only seems to be dedicated to temperature.
This would make calibrating MAF 'air flow' against 'voltage' much easier.
Reason. I propose to use a freely available Bosch MAF sensor on the tubocharger compressor inlet. Adding MAF sensor on inlet tract of compressor is simple. MAF against MAP will then give compressor speed and efficiency when plotted on the compressor map. Some Bosch MAF sensors have good documentation giving good scaling data that will allow for a fairly acurate measurement. with this I would determine compressor efficiencies without the need to use expensive turbine tachometers or calculating BSFC then working back from dyno hp readings, which we all know can be optimistic.
I am not suggesting using MAF as a dedicated sesnor in fueling strategy, just simply MAF logging in real time with known sensor scales.
Why not a velocity sensor? i.e a pitot tube sensor that outputs pressure difference between the static and dynamic pressure.
knowing the pipe size you´ll know the volume flow.
I'd still have to calibrate it, which is the point i'm trying to put across.
I have just bought some extra large graph paper to plot out the MAF curve at 0.01v and kg/hr per milimeter graph.
The MAF I have chosen is a 640kg/h unit so that'll be 0.5 x 0.64meter graph lol. I can then extrapolate the air flow values accurately against the fixed VEMS sensor curve volts, job done.
Just seems a bit archaic.
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one nice thing to have would be dc vs temp output, lancer evo 8 has fan controller working on the duty cycle output from the ecu
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Hi, I've just installed a VEMS on my 1977 TVR3000, duratec V6 engine.
In general VEMS is grat, setup a bit tricky, but made it work after a couple of hours.
I am thou dissapointed with the lack of flexibility on analogue outputs, it would be really nice, and very usefull to have 2 fully flexible analogue outputs (eq by a 17 point array like the temp sensoe input) and with the oution to convert a given internal parameter to a 0-5 volt output signal.
For my use do I miss a lambda analogue out, to drive my lambdameter (and vems round is not an option on the wood dash of a classic car)
Same goes for engine temparature, currently did I mount 2 sensors, one for VEMS and one for the instrument, silly right ?
oil temp is the same matter
Boost is there... fine, but for NA applications not that relevant, please make it so it's possible to use any other desired parameter instead.
For the digital out do I really miss an output for the speedo (I bought a GPS speedo to compensate)
BR Mads
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In actuality there are very few ecu´s that have 0-5v outputs.
It´s very normal to have a seperate sensors for your gauges.
You don´t need to use the MAP sensor as main load function , you can use the TPS as load.
Go to Base Setup - Alpha-N / speed density blending and set
VE table control strategy to Alpha-N
Ign+Lambda table Y axis to TPS
and TPS lookup used below this threshold to 110kpa.
This will make the ecu run solely on the TPS.
If you want and have wide resolution using your throttle you can chance the Y axis in the fuel, ignition and lambda tables to 0-100.
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Hi
I do use Map for load in the ECU, just a note on that I don't need a boost gauge.
And yes, many aftermarket ecu's don't provide analogue output's, but that don't mean that analogue out's will be a bad idea. Eq for dyno sessions, could it be relevant if you could transfer values form the ecu to the dyno for logging (eg. lambda and spark advance)
And having to add an LC1 or a VEMS round to get an analogue out for the lambda, just seems as money waste and system complication, knowing that the ecu to have plenty of unused analogue output's and it do know all the values.
:-) if the firmware was open source like megasquirt, would it not take a lot to make it :-)
Br Mads
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When needed, use the bluetooth serial port adapter and an Android tablet/phone with the Vems Display app, you can see everything the ECU sees.
There is no real use to watch the lambda gauge at all times, it's more of a fault finding tool when something is wrong with EFI components. You can trust the wideband EGO correction to have control of your fuel mixture and make sure it hits lambda target in the load range you require.
If you want warning functions, use any of the misc outputs or warning functions to light up a LED or small light when threshold values are met, plenty of outputs for those. This is usually all you have time to look at in any vehicle when your eyes have to be on the road.
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Hi Mattias
Sure, all the dial's is not needed in the cabin. My E60 only have fuel, speedo,tacho and economy.
But I'm building 60' and 70' british sportcars, and in that time was monotoring dials a must, so to keep these cars in original apperance do we need som signals from the ecu. Else will it be a double sensor setup all around. So flexible analogue out's will be highly apriciated in old cars.
In my setup do I have : oil temp, water temp, oil pressure, fuel level and lambda (I got a lambda instead of the original voltmeter), further warning lights from ecu, oil pressure, voltage.
So it will be very nice for older cars if that was possible, and further will it allso be very nice in order to make signals for the dyno work (again, a analogue 0-5v signal for lambda can be connected directly to the input/logging in a dyno)
:-) and it do have a show-of value as well :-)
digital Speedo output will allso be very usefull for older cars (non odb stuff)
Br Mads
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In the Mini scene, those that fit EFi into what is in the main, old carb cars, the temp gauge uses the original coolant temp sender and a seperate sensor is used for the CLT on the ECU.
In my case I had a later model that had fuel injection from the factory which only had the ECU CLT sensor and the ECU then modulated the temp gauge.
Installing the VEMS, I just installed a seperate temp sender for the gauge.
It is something that is still common practice even on the most modern engine systems.
Granted the digital 'wideband' gauge looks a bit offensive in a classic car with analog gauges, but then so does all the extra wiring and fuel injectors under the bonnet :D
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I found a solution to the missing analogue output problem, that even solves another request i had (missing digital speedo putput)
My solution is to program a netduino to recieve on the AIM protocol and from that drive my instruments. When I'm done with the coding will I post a link to the solution if anybody else is interested.
Phase 1 will include:
- a pwm (0-5V) scaleable output of lambda (my main request)
- a switch selectable output of airtemp, oiltemp,water temp on a pwm so all 3 temperatures can be shown on the original water temp gauge
- Driving light output (on when RPM>400) and light switch is on main
- a pwm control of the main beam indicator (my retrofit of led's is way too bright)
- digital output of speed (request from my frind as he did retrofit his mechanical speedo with a drive from a tacho)
Later plan
- enable bluetooth communication, both for VES/AIM and to control the netduino
- make pwm control of rear lights (combined rear and brake light (current rear lights are quite dim, so using pwm on a 21W bulp)
- PWM control for 1 speed dc fan (another classic car problem)
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Better varying altitude support for fuel AND boost(7000ft.<). I live at 9000ft. and travel to 5000ft. and lower a lot. Having variable high altitude support, instead of just sampling at start up would help the driveability and efficiency of the motor. I've never been able to get the current barometric correction to work correctly.
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Hello UrSobssed,
Dynamic barometric compensation is already available even fully configurable when using an anytrim channel for this (of course it requires hooking up a permanent barometric map sensor):
http://vems.hu/vt/help/v3/v3_engine_setup.html
A different Anytrim channel can be used to tweak boost target for barometric compensation using the same sensor.
http://vems.hu/vt/help/v3/v3_anytrim_control.html
Best regards, Dave
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Thanks for the info Dave. Do you know if the Audi F96 barometric sensor can work with this? I'd need to find the range of the sensor, but it seems that it should work as an atmospheric pressure sensor.
I'll have to look into the anytrim controls, as I don't have any experience using that feature in VEMS yet. If you know of any example configs that use it in this way that would help a lot!
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Hello UrSobsessed,
Any sensor which has a linear output can be used, i suspect the Audi F96 is of this kind but make sure to lookup the translation values to verify this.
The help page: http://vems.hu/vt/help/v3/v3_engine_setup.html already has an example curve for Anytrim barometric correction (in the section: Barometric Correction with Anytrim control); Anytrim boost target correction should be equally simple to tune and setup.
Best regards, Dave
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Thanks Dave!
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I know I have mentioned it before, but I'm really hoping you'll make a more flexible analogue output, if you can alter the boost gauge output slightly, so it's possible to select any parameter for the "boost output" instead of that's it locked to MAP.
Last situation is a friend I have just make an VEMS installation fore, and would really like to have a "fuel consumtion meter" like on the BMW's. Data is readyly avaliable in the VEMS box, but impossible to get out on his dash.
Another SW issue, can you add a calculation in vems tune / log viewer that shown dspeed/dt, so it's possible to read car acceleration directly ? that will make the logviewer into a simple dyno, so it's possible to monitor the engine tourque (ofcause only realtively to the same car) but this could be quite usefull in order to monitor the effect of various setup changes. Currently I'm using drpm/dt, but after changing my diff ratio, is it not comparable to my old logs.
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it would be nice that when vems is configured with 8 egt channels warning light comes on when any of these channels are reading more than set value, not only channel 3-4 who is used like default egt channels.
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I would enjoy a graphical representation of injection angle vs cam timing (cam lobes and 0-720deg scaling or -360 - 0 - 360 ) and ignition timing (don´t have enough time myself to do something in excel)
also that injection angle would be load based, so a 3d table.
Also even without cam sync injection output vs ignition output shown, i.e where is IGN01 vs Inj1.
Also more nice to have
tacho output test function (i.e type in rpm and the tacho output does it) and adjustment curve to make sure tacho isn´t wandering as sometimes they are not accurate at high rpm´s,
4 points should be enough.
injector opening time curve is shown for both traditional and simplified options against X axis (vbatt) graphically
The option to connect the wideband resistor to a analog input for auto calibration. Fit and forget.., replace and forget again. It´s done in the gauge and most people don´t use all their analog inputs anyway.
dTPS in accel window is noted as 20mV/100ms, this should be the degrees per 100ms, if it is, it needs editing.
dTPS minimum angle/100ms to activate Accel Enrich without loosing the first row in the enrichment table
Accel Enrichment window shows a 3d representation of the two other tables in % of Req fuel/VE.
Actual documentation of what Fuel film is all about if anything and represented in a curve
Accel enrichment should also include accel enleanment in the same curve, i.e 8 rows instead of 4, 4 negative movement, 4 positive movement. I see alot of rich spikes when closing throttle would be nice to stop wasting that fuel for nothing.
Boost gauge settings, a 8 point curve based on MAP or turn into a universal output that can use "any" channel, has test function to simulate, to setup any gauge.
Antilag, launch control , wot gear shifts have graphical represenation curves or 3d map displayed
Valve control operates beyond when error is higher then "Near PWM-ing range" , last time I checked it turns off the output/s instead of staying at 100%
Analog input calibration shows resultant curves (all sensor inputs can be reviewed)
Engine can run dual out until cam sync is sorted so fires right away, I believe this is in 1.2.27 or something.
When running S50B32 or S54 or similar the Exhaust table is actually the exhaust table and intake table is intake table. Even if its just a Vemstune menu option that does nothing to the ecu functionally, but when connected a 0 or 1 tells other vemstune how to represent the tables.
closed loop lambda rpm based delay understanding, i.e the ecu knows that the current lambda is Xmilliseconds old if rpm is Y , curve needed. Would be ideal if this is done automatically in the log viewer. might be worth trying a kalmann filter on the lambda input into EGO correction so it accurately predicts the error coming up based on previous errors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter
I could go on, but thats alot already.
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An advance ignition ramped when returning from fuel cut in order to smoothen out the recovered engine torque. ( especially when there is some play on the driveshaft ;) )
(comments)
closed loop lambda rpm based delay understanding, i.e the ecu knows that the current lambda is Xmilliseconds old if rpm is Y , curve needed.
may be difficult to automatically set since it is dependent on the wbo2 pid parameters, however one could enter the delay which has been observed on the logs.
might be worth trying a kalmann filter
A real Kalman filter is quite involved since it has to be optimal w/r to noise (which statistics is hardly known). Most of the time one uses clones where the parameters are adjusted by trials. Even in this case it is not so easy to implement because there are in real world several modes of run which need to be recognized in order to commute the parameters of the respective model at the changes.
Better to get on first hand the best information possible from sensors, not have any delay in the computing of the closed loop command, have a fast loop and design efficient filters well tuned for the relevant band frequencies. Vems algorithms may be eventually improved following this strategy.
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might be worth trying a kalmann filter on the lambda input into EGO correction so it accurately predicts the error coming up based on previous errors.
It already uses a Kalman filter in the lambda smoothing. It is admittedly a very simple one based on coping with the limited stats, the differing modes of operation it is required to cope with, and the integer precision. There are features designed in already to do things like limit the history of the smoothing under certain conditions.
I would guess there's little to be gained by predicting the EGO for a cycle since the covariance would be large in comparison to the actual error given the lack of decent stats etc - before you knew what was happening you'd be running multi-hypothesis filters and consuming an awful lot of processor!
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Another features Smoothing the idle threshold.
I may be wrong, but the idle value one defines by the option "Control enable, Max TPS Value" is a hard threshold, yes/no.
So:
- when the throttle position is about that value and the rpm is over the overrun band , then, because of the noise on the TPS, the engine mode may toggle between idle/not idle and the fuel cut between on/off
- when the ignition idle control is commanding an ignition retard of the max enabled value say 8° during a deceleration, a slight move of the tps above the idle threshold leads to big change for the spark angle and for the engine torque.
There are several solutions which can improve these concerns however they mostly depends on the fw implementation.
Philippe
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Leading on from that, a lot of modern car have an increase in target idle by about 75-100rpm when wheel speed is detected.
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CAN .
Will the Auxiliary box have CAN? If so I would like to request that the CAN setup is similar to the Link one, its very easy to make new messages and calibrate the results.
To many ECU's are just way to complicated or trouble some when it comes to CAN setups. Also CAN streams made should be exportable as .xaml files to share with others.
Todays ECU simply must have CAN, VEMS can be no different.
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Hello Gunni,
Will the Auxiliary box have CAN?
Yes.
Best regards, Dave
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Thoughts about advanced safty features
Overboost
the boost limit action is a fuelcut that works immediately...but it's brutal. A small MAP range before the limit, with reducing boost refDC to zero, would soften this threshold.
Advanced knock action
the current knock action is based on ignition retard and increasing fuel. If knock isn't cured this way and remains, there is no further safty action left.
My request would be a time-threshold for permanent exceeding "knock mean value" with the effect of reducing "boost refDC" to zero.
Also a faulty cylinder detected by "individual power" could lead to reduced load (boost refDC) preventing further damage.
Thanks
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Misc 1 and Misc 2 outputs hysteresis setting
Theshold hysteresis. Only one hysteresis, but selectable for either MAP, RPM or temperature dependent on application perhaps?
For example. We enable water methanol injection primaraly based on MAP. Currently when MAP is at theshold, the output flutters on and off rapidly.
We also enable a supercharger bypass solenoid based on MAP. This too flutters on and off when at threshold threshold.
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It'd be nice to able to change the launchcontrol RPM limit in the VEMSDisplay app, or by attach a variable resistor to one of the inputs.
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It'd be nice to able to change the launchcontrol RPM limit in the VEMSDisplay app, or by attach a variable resistor to one of the inputs.
See anytrim: http://vems.hu/vt/help/v3/v3_anytrim_control.html launch(rpm) adjustment.
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Someone could explain this to me. ???
Sry, but im a newbie, and the documentation isn't too detailed.
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hope one day vems will have features like this :D
Injector Drives 16 Low/High Impedance
Ignition Drives 12 Internal Clamp
PWM Outputs 15 (10A)
Relay Outputs 8 (1A)
H-Bridge Drivers 2 (6A)
Moog Drives 2
Crank Sensor Type Twin Hall Effect / Inductive
Cam Sensor Type Hall Effect / Inductive
Analogue Inputs 25 General Purpose
2 UEGO Lambda
4 K-type thermocouple
6 x Knock Sensors
Digital Inputs 15 General Purpose
Switch / Load Cell /Rotation
6 Internal Sensors 5 ECU Temperatures
Battery Voltage
Communication RS232 and 3 x CAN 2.0B
Data Throughput 2000 Hz
Engine Configuration 1 to 12 Cylinders
Natural
Forced Induction
20000 rpm maximum
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Hi Kamuto,
You mean the specs of the Pectel T10S-F ECU ? Would you still like them if we asked their prices too ?
Best regards, Dave
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Hi Kamuto,
You mean the specs of the Pectel T10S-F ECU ? Would you still like them if we asked their prices too ?
Best regards, Dave
i know the price :D just got bored waiting something new from vems ;)
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i know the price :D just got bored waiting something new from vems ;)
But the Pectel T10S-F ECU system specs are very good indeed.
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i know the price :D just got bored waiting something new from vems ;)
But the Pectel T10S-F ECU system specs are very good indeed.
interesting how it looks from inside :) yes, very good :)
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I have one on my desk here., used to run our GT1 Aston's, its one hell of a ECU.
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so, what about an analog input menu?
yesterday I was maping a car where we are using 7 analog inputs, we needed one more input, so I had to write down on notepad where which input are used and for what because now they are all around in menu9s, it would be nice if current menu would be different, somehow like, all analog inputs in one place, and every input had selectable menu for what they are used + when inputs are selected and used for something like anytrim control anytrim menu should be in calibrated values not milivolts like it is now, it really needs do some calculations in your head until you understand what fuel pressure you have at something like 1500mv :)
ANinp0:launch
ANinp1:fuel pressure
ANinp2:pps1
ANinp3:AN_volt_0-5
ANinp4:egt
ANinp5:egt
ANinp6:antilag
ANinp7:oil pressure
+ when there are multiple inputs selected like egt it should trigger warning light if any of these inputs exceeds selected temp limit.
+ mux inputs, with that there will be total mess in the ecu
+ mux inputs, with that there will be total mess in the ecu :)
thanks :)
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Hello Kamuto,
so, what about an analog input menu?
You mean like inputs->input channels (but then with all inputs allocated) ? That should not be to hard.
when inputs are selected and used for something like anytrim control anytrim menu should be in calibrated values not milivolts like it is now, it really needs do some calculations in your head until you understand what fuel pressure you have at something like 1500mv :)
Displaying calibrated values as anytrim axis is also doable
Best regards, Dave
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Hello Kamuto,
so, what about an analog input menu?
You mean like inputs->input channels (but then with all inputs allocated) ? That should not be to hard.
when inputs are selected and used for something like anytrim control anytrim menu should be in calibrated values not milivolts like it is now, it really needs do some calculations in your head until you understand what fuel pressure you have at something like 1500mv :)
Displaying calibrated values as anytrim axis is also doable
Best regards, Dave
I mean input0<> dropdown menu(all possible selections, egt, pressure0-10 bar, launch, als, map switch)
input1<> dropdown menu(all possible selections, egt, pressure0-10 bar, launch, als, map switch)
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Would be great to have fuelpressure connected with the map scale so you can get a true value and use the fuelpressure for a safety function in the ecu.
Like: Fuelpressure = fuelpressure sensor - MAP
Also a fuelcut if the lambda isnt following target when boost increases.
(Like the Maxxecu function)
A off delay of the warning lamp output would also be great so the lamp keeps on a few seconds after the event.
Can be hard to notice some times when driving.
Error log would also be great!
Maybe could be inplanted if you have a memmorycard in the ecu?
Then more people would buy the sd card
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Would be great to have fuelpressure connected with the map scale so you can get a true value and use the fuelpressure for a safety function in the ecu.
Like: Fuelpressure = fuelpressure sensor - MAP
it works already..
Also a fuelcut if the lambda isnt following target when boost increases.
(Like the Maxxecu function)
fuel cut for that wrong, trim boost or rev limiter ok, I think it could be done year ago, it just needs lamda parameter as control source
A off delay of the warning lamp output would also be great so the lamp keeps on a few seconds after the event.
Can be hard to notice some times when driving.
Error log would also be great!
Maybe could be inplanted if you have a memmorycard in the ecu?
Then more people would buy the sd card
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It'd be nice to have a HUD function in VemsDisplay app. For example, you put your phone to the dasboard, and the phones screen is got mirrored on the windscreen (Just needs to have a mirror function). With adjustable night & daylight backlighting for example.
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The overrun fuel cut to be enabled equally with TPS below a choosen level (say 3%) not just the idle level.
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I want to be able to export view groups as single files , lets call them worksheets
I want to be able to save my current view groups as a single file, lets call it a workbook.
I want to be able to apply filters to channels in a particular sheet specifically, in the whole workbook
I want to be able to make and export math channels as files
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Often there has to be reserved a wide area within the VE- and ignition-table for stable idle (speed-density strategy).
But most of this area is also used for driving. In order to keep this area tunable for proper driving, a fixed idle setting for VE and ignition would be very helpful.
The current idle strategy using IAC valves/steppers and ignition advance/retard is working well, but should be selectable to a fixed VE and ignition value.
Switching to separate lambda target (ego-correction) for idle would be favourable as well. All other functions like afterstart, warmup etc. could work with these idle settings as before.
My suggestion would be expanding the “Idle Control General” menu by:
Idle Ignition Advance
(If set to zero, ignition table is used)
Idle VE
(If set to zero, VE table is used)
Idle Lambda Target
(If set to zero, ego-correction is disabled)
Thanks
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LIMP MODE- Mostly to open the subject.
- When to go to limp mode?
- Which limp modes ?
Per ex. one case to jump to limp mode could be when primary trigger and secondary rigger events go out of sync.
The following limp mode could consists of: engine stop, engine resync ignition advance set>0, boost=0 etc ..; this in order to protect the engine and not to be stuck in the traffic.
One may think to some other cases ...
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Some more stuff .
X/Y plots.
more detailed PID information (the P, I and D for idle control and boost control represented as % of duty cycle )
Better graphical representation from non curve information, for instance Refpos addition for MAT, Slope, this could be represented as a curve (so you don´t edit the curve but you see the results as a curve, same for Idle afterstart rpm added value, rampdown time etc etc, this doesnt have to be represented in the menu window but could be in a group view tab along with other "curves" (already exists for general curves)
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Some small stuff
- After editing a config, we should get an alarm "Please close any parmeters window" when asking to save the edited config.
As we may have experienced the change of a window are not saved if the window is not closed after the change.
- Menu Boost Control/PID settings/Apply max DCuntil -
Could we get the value of -10kPa or so (who is using -90kPa value anyway?)
- BTW I do not fully understand the function of PID Overlap Range, in particular the meaning of
"Forever means always PID"
Are the limits done by "PD control (far from target)" and "PI control (close from targert" switched off in this case? That is the control simply done by a standard PID once the limit done by "Apply max DC until" reached(this would be ok).
- a new Anytrim function: AC switched of when boost greater tan some limit.
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Some small stuff
- After editing a config, we should get an alarm "Please close any parmeters window" when asking to save the edited config.
As we may have experienced the change of a window are not saved if the window is not closed after the change.
- Menu Boost Control/PID settings/Apply max DCuntil -
Could we get the value of -10kPa or so (who is using -90kPa value anyway?)
- BTW I do not fully understand the function of PID Overlap Range, in particular the meaning of
"Forever means always PID"
Are the limits done by "PD control (far from target)" and "PI control (close from targert" switched off in this case? That is the control simply done by a standard PID once the limit done by "Apply max DC until" reached(this would be ok).
- a new Anytrim function: AC switched of when boost greater tan some limit.
I believe there is much more important things to do ;)
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;)
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Better VE table resolution
Without changing backwards compatibility to much this is how I suggest its done to save on space (this is the minimum needed to even bother with this)
We will need 2 bits for each reference cell in this reference table, total is then 336bits or just 42 bytes, no need for axis as they are the same as the VE table
Each cell reference being 2 bits can have 4 total values
0 = 0 (00)
1 = 0.25 (01)
2 = 0.5 (10)
3 = 0.75 (11)
The VE number therefore comes from two tables
VE Table + Reference table
VE = 50 + (reference*0.25) = total VE value
With 1568bits(196 bytes) we could have a 0.142 resolution
Why do I think this is needed? because Alpha-N VE table is just not good enough even doing a fudge and halving the req fuel value or scaling so that 255 is the highest you´ll ever put in,
Lowest numbers usually seen in AlphaN tables is abour 30-35, 31 is 3.33% higher than 31. Thats quite alot for just one value, its still 1.6% if you half the req fuel. With just 42bytes we can improve this alot.
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are you sure you really need it?
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For Alpha-N absolutely, as you noticed in my explanation the resolution is about best 1.5%, we should have much better resolution than that.
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One thing is missing. Switched input for datalog starting and stopping for sd card logging
I have a switch that is connected to an analog input that is doing nothing i would like to use it for sd card datalogging
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Another I would like, analog input can trigger page change on android device or windows vemstune tablet,
many people are installing tablets as dashes these days so this would be a very welcome addition.
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One thing is missing. Switched input for datalog starting and stopping for sd card logging
I have a switch that is connected to an analog input that is doing nothing i would like to use it for sd card datalogging
The SD-Card log function already works with analog inputs and many other options?
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One thing is missing. Switched input for datalog starting and stopping for sd card logging
I have a switch that is connected to an analog input that is doing nothing i would like to use it for sd card datalogging
The SD-Card log function already works with analog inputs and many other options?
and where is that feature?
(http://i.imgur.com/Hq5mLsU.jpg)
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One thing is missing. Switched input for datalog starting and stopping for sd card logging
I have a switch that is connected to an analog input that is doing nothing i would like to use it for sd card datalogging
The SD-Card log function already works with analog inputs and many other options?
and where is that feature?
(http://i.imgur.com/Hq5mLsU.jpg)
that was a question ;) but anyway that would be nice
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To automatically save datalog buffer in VT. Like with every startup the VT saves the config, it could start a new log file.
and
Better TPS resolution. Very small throttle openings cannot be perceive.
and
Automatic accel. enrichment tune. Could be like the tune by statistics, but only for the acc. enr. (for the ultimate response)
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Automatic accel. enrichment tune. Could be like the tune by statistics, but only for the acc. enr. (for the ultimate response)
it sounds like some alien technology...
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Automatic accel. enrichment tune. Could be like the tune by statistics, but only for the acc. enr. (for the ultimate response)
it sounds like some alien technology...
Why?
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Automatic accel. enrichment tune. Could be like the tune by statistics, but only for the acc. enr. (for the ultimate response)
it sounds like some alien technology...
it's impossible
Why?
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Okay then.
But this shoud be added to the help:
"Divider & no. of primary injectors:
Divider should be: phisycally used injectors / used injector outputs
Example: 6 physical injectors, but only 2 injector output is used, since it's running in 2 banks. So 6/2= injector divider (3 in this case)"
It's not written in the help, and i didn't know why i had to use very low req_fuel. (My inj. divider was set to 1)
I made a calculator which contains this, and the req_fuel too.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2LftYmTraGcdzV1VzlsMXR4TGM (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2LftYmTraGcdzV1VzlsMXR4TGM)
It would be nice to have a calc in the VT, where you could just put these values, and then automatically displays the needed fuel/divider.
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Need to be able to turn individual Anytrim features on/off with digital input, result from misc outputs and maybe even status flags (launch, als, etc)
In my case I'm trying to implement traction control by retarding timing based on speed1-speed2 and must be able to disable traction control during burnout.
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Need to be able to turn individual Anytrim features on/off with digital input, result from misc outputs and maybe even status flags (launch, als, etc)
In my case I'm trying to implement traction control by retarding timing based on speed1-speed2 and must be able to disable traction control during burnout.
just use B map for burnout :)
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Thanks for the idea! That's a nice "fix" ;)
When you look at the big picture though, it would still be nice to have dedicated features like that. Just makes the product seem more "mature".
For big time flexibility it would be nice to have a "custom logic" section, where you could write simple expressions (eg: (speed1>30) and (gear=1) and (tps>80) ).
The result of the expressions could drive the status of internal variables (with custom labels so you can assign meaningful names for them).
These variables could then be used to drive outputs, enable/disable features, scale variables or be part of a bigger control logic.
The basic engine config and trigger setup.... I think it can be done in a simpler more intuitive way...other people said the same thing.
For warmup, idle control and ignition advance (maybe other features) it would be nice to have all the settings and real time feedback on one page. There are many individual things that work in parallel and affect the final result... it's not easy enough to figure out just which "module" has more of a say, at which point in time.
Then, it should be smart enough to do some things by itself:
-turn off closed loop EGO control when the auto-tune in on
-auto-calculate req fuel (all necessary parameters are entered... except fuel type).
-default to max baud rate when trigger-logging. Also have a note right on the triglog page that says you need to crank the engine for min 8 sec.
Those and many other things that once you know them, it's "easy"... but as a newcomer there is a lot of googleing that's needed :) no reason why it can't be done in a simple intuitive way.
Bigger maps (16x16) would be nice for high boost/rpm applicatio
I say V4 board, big CPU and memory... then go crazy with autotune/ pattern/ self learning algorithms for boost control, warmup, accel enrichment, etc
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Would be great to have fuelpressure connected with the map scale so you can get a true value and use the fuelpressure for a safety function in the ecu.
Like: Fuelpressure = fuelpressure sensor - MAP
it works already..
Also a fuelcut if the lambda isnt following target when boost increases.
(Like the Maxxecu function)
fuel cut for that wrong, trim boost or rev limiter ok, I think it could be done year ago, it just needs lamda parameter as control source
A off delay of the warning lamp output would also be great so the lamp keeps on a few seconds after the event.
Can be hard to notice some times when driving.
Error log would also be great!
Maybe could be inplanted if you have a memmorycard in the ecu?
Then more people would buy the sd card
Hi kamuto
When you say that the differential fuel pressure function already works how is this achieved?
I have searched in the wiki and the software but not found any good info on this.
Please explain ;)
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(https://s24.postimg.org/x3wlq40mp/Screenshot_from_2017_01_15_20_47_46.png) (https://postimg.org/image/x3wlq40mp/)
that one?
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No that feauture only works with vems differential sensor as i understand and that sensor is not a good solution with E85 fuel.
I want to use any sensor and that the ECU makes the calculation of the diff.pressure.
It´s a really easy function so this couldn´t be hard to implement in the programming code
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No that feauture only works with vems differential sensor as i understand and that sensor is not a good solution with E85 fuel.
I want to use any sensor and that the ECU makes the calculation of the diff.pressure.
It´s a really easy function so this couldn´t be hard to implement in the programming code
yes I may be wrong :))
anyway as I understand it should be this one https://shop.vems.hu/catalog/honeywell-pressure-sensor-100psi-p-167.html if that channel is calculated inside of ecu... not sure about that sadly..
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No that feauture only works with vems differential sensor as i understand and that sensor is not a good solution with E85 fuel.
I want to use any sensor and that the ECU makes the calculation of the diff.pressure.
It´s a really easy function so this couldn´t be hard to implement in the programming code
checked it with vems, it works with 700kpa sensor :) not diferential one, calculations are made in ecu :)
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That´s great news! Thanx Kamuto ;)
But i noticed that i couldn´t use it on the warning light or the misc output channels?
Without that it´s not so functional as i want an alarm if the fuel pressure drops
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That´s great news! Thanx Kamuto ;)
But i noticed that i couldn´t use it on the warning light or the misc output channels?
Without that it´s not so functional as i want an alarm if the fuel pressure drops
why you cant use it? and again you are overcomplicating things, you can use analog input voltage on warning light + better use it in anytrim to trigger rev limit :) :) btw, update first to 1.2.36 at least :)
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To detect Gear based on speed/rpm we could have an "Auto config" button instead of entering km/h@5000rpm.
Simply put it in 1'st gear, drive, hit the auto setup button for 1'st hear;
then put in 2'nd gear, drive and hit the auto setup button for 2'nd gear.
Repeat for other gears (each gear would have it's own auto setup button next to the current speed entry box)
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To detect Gear based on speed/rpm we could have an "Auto config" button instead of entering km/h@5000rpm.
Simply put it in 1'st gear, drive, hit the auto setup button for 1'st hear;
then put in 2'nd gear, drive and hit the auto setup button for 2'nd gear.
Repeat for other gears (each gear would have it's own auto setup button next to the current speed entry box)
good luck... seems it's really hard to look at the log and write down values :)
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good luck... seems it's really hard to look at the log and write down values :)
Yeah, it's not hard to "write down values" but to taking a car in 6'th gear to 5000rpm so you can take a speed reading is going to be....illegal ;)
An "auto config" button could make perfect calculations at lower speeds. You wouldn't have to hold 5000rpm.
Besides, this is "nice to have features" thread, not the "absolutely necessary features". I think it's a better way of doing things, I simply expressed my opinion :) But yeah...feel free to debate or disagree :)
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good luck... seems it's really hard to look at the log and write down values :)
Yeah, it's not hard to "write down values" but to taking a car in 6'th gear to 5000rpm so you can take a speed reading is going to be....illegal ;)
An "auto config" button could make perfect calculations at lower speeds. You wouldn't have to hold 5000rpm.
Besides, this is "nice to have features" thread, not the "absolutely necessary features". I think it's a better way of doing things, I simply expressed my opinion :) But yeah...feel free to debate or disagree :)
using laptop when running is illegal too :D anyway you can easily calculate the gears even without starting a car :)
http://www.boosttown.com/gearbox_differential/speed_calculator.php
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Maths ;)
D = Wheel circumference
G = Overall Gear Ratio
V = vehicle speed
300 * (D / G) = V
example
1st gear> 300 * (1.508 / 8.896) = 51kph
2nd gear> 300 * (1.508 / 5.893) = 77kph
3rd gear> 300 * (1.508 / 4.305) = 105kph
4th gear> 300 * (1.508 / 3.444) = 131kph
Maybe that should be included in the help file?.....................
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Yes, we should also use abacus. Why bother with calculator :o
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Yes, we should also use abacus. Why bother with calculator :o
your shift cut stuff was serious problem which could affect overall performance and so on.. adding some stupid wizard which magically configures your gearbox, really, nobody cares :) there is much more important stuff to do and every request of that kind delays these important things.
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How about a straight forward anytrim where the % ethanol is used. Or a direct input from the continental Ethanol content sensor can be used in anytrim.
Some people are saying it's possible to have it work in anytrim,but no real direction ....the only thing thats out there is the display , where the gauge shows % Ethanol after changing the code in the ini file as directed.
Wouldn't it be nice just to take the %ethanol value on the display gauge that works and use it in anytrim tables ie: %ethanol/spark trim or fuel trim or cranking pw
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Need more options under "safety".
Two common things in particular:
-running lean over a certain boost (maybe even have a map). Easy to have a tired fuel pump, dirty fuel filter, weak alternator or electrical problem.
-low oil pressure. Some setups might use more oil than the pump is designed for: turbo, vtec, etc.
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Need more options under "safety".
Two common things in particular:
-running lean over a certain boost (maybe even have a map). Easy to have a tired fuel pump, dirty fuel filter, weak alternator or electrical problem.
-low oil pressure. Some setups might use more oil than the pump is designed for: turbo, vtec, etc.
there is anytrim, learn to use it
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there is anytrim, learn to use it
I'm thinking more like stuff that will shut down the engine, requires power off then back on to clear. This is to save the engine. If the pump fails or you run out of injectors, or boost goes past what the sensor can read... you can put all the correction you want... you won't get more fuel.
Same if you loose oil pressure. You don't want corrections, you want immediate shutdown.
Talking from experience here... lost an engine 2 weeks ago.
Good sales point too ;)
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there is anytrim, learn to use it
I'm thinking more like stuff that will shut down the engine, requires power off then back on to clear. This is to save the engine. If the pump fails or you run out of injectors, or boost goes past what the sensor can read... you can put all the correction you want... you won't get more fuel.
Same if you loose oil pressure. You don't want corrections, you want immediate shutdown.
Talking from experience here... lost an engine 2 weeks ago.
Good sales point too ;)
update to 1.2.38 and shut down your car from low oil pressure :) even 1.2.32 can do this no problem... seems that's user problem which don't know how to use features not the ecu :)
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Hi :D
1) I would like to have a "tuning by statistic" funktion in vemsdisplay.
2) why is vemsdisplay logs not in the same format as vemstune ?
3) a possiblity to turn on/off funktions like. antilag, launccontrol..... its alot easier then making wires ;)
Regards Mads
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For VEMSdisplay app:
If i set the VEMSdisplay to V3 datastream, it disables AIM protocol. It'd be a nice feature to have to when i exit VEMSdisplay it'd enable back the AIM protocol, therefore i can use different bluetooth apps too.
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For VEMSdisplay app:
If i set the VEMSdisplay to V3 datastream, it disables AIM protocol. It'd be a nice feature to have to when i exit VEMSdisplay it'd enable back the AIM protocol, therefore i can use different bluetooth apps too.
use second serial output for that :)))
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For VEMSdisplay app:
If i set the VEMSdisplay to V3 datastream, it disables AIM protocol. It'd be a nice feature to have to when i exit VEMSdisplay it'd enable back the AIM protocol, therefore i can use different bluetooth apps too.
use second serial output for that :)))
Aaaaand?
I guess you missing the point. I want to use several apps with 1 BT...
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For VEMSdisplay app:
If i set the VEMSdisplay to V3 datastream, it disables AIM protocol. It'd be a nice feature to have to when i exit VEMSdisplay it'd enable back the AIM protocol, therefore i can use different bluetooth apps too.
use second serial output for that :)))
Aaaaand?
I guess you missing the point. I want to use several apps with 1 BT...
yea, missed that a little. sorry :)
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For VEMSdisplay app:
If i set the VEMSdisplay to V3 datastream, it disables AIM protocol. It'd be a nice feature to have to when i exit VEMSdisplay it'd enable back the AIM protocol, therefore i can use different bluetooth apps too.
use second serial output for that :)))
Aaaaand?
I guess you missing the point. I want to use several apps with 1 BT...
yea, missed that a little. sorry :)
No probs. I didn't know there's a 2nd serial output though. ;D
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No probs. I didn't know there's a 2nd serial output though. ;D
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges
has it from 1.2.35 you can find how to configure it here
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=BroadcastDatastreamAim
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To disable "RPM filter, cam base trigger" during cranking when it is said "enabled" in "Primary trigger settings" (if this is not already the case, but I believe not...)
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To have Acceleration enrichment TPS scale. Accel enrichment scaled by the amount of throttle opening. (Like RPM scaling, but with TPS value)
To have clt dependant revlimit. For example: above 105°C revlimit to 3000, and under 50°C 3500
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To have Acceleration enrichment TPS scale. Accel enrichment scaled by the amount of throttle opening. (Like RPM scaling, but with TPS value)
To have clt dependant revlimit. For example: above 105°C revlimit to 3000, and under 50°C 3500
anytrim
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To have Acceleration enrichment TPS scale. Accel enrichment scaled by the amount of throttle opening. (Like RPM scaling, but with TPS value)
To have clt dependant revlimit. For example: above 105°C revlimit to 3000, and under 50°C 3500
anytrim
Yeah, i found out that the new 1.2.38 firmware have the coolant sensor in the anytrim. Tried out, works!
Although the AE TPS scale would be nice to have.
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Another one: idle ignition control max rpm. For example set to 1300rpm, so above 1300 it doesn't retard the ignition when off throttle.
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Another one: idle ignition control max rpm. For example set to 1300rpm, so above 1300 it doesn't retard the ignition when off throttle.
that's a good one
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To have clt dependant revlimit. For example: above 105°C revlimit to 3000, and under 50°C 3500
I know Sam8888 has already configured this, but I made a video on how to set this up for anybody else looking/wondering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSv3B0C6_dA
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When using dual wbo, it'd be nice to use them as back to back sensors for safety. Same injectors for both sensors, same location in the exhaust pipe. For example at 3% diffence between the 2 sensors measurement, flash check engine or something.
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One more:
Cylinder separated ignition trim. For example: cyl 5 is more likely to knock, you can retard that cyl by 2deg overall (or add rpm and kpa limitiation for the retarding), and add 2 more to the whole ignition table, that would result in more power.
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One more:
Cylinder separated ignition trim. For example: cyl 5 is more likely to knock, you can retard that cyl by 2deg overall (or add rpm and kpa limitiation for the retarding), and add 2 more to the whole ignition table, that would result in more power.
Cylinder separated spark delay under base settings?...............................
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One more:
Cylinder separated ignition trim. For example: cyl 5 is more likely to knock, you can retard that cyl by 2deg overall (or add rpm and kpa limitiation for the retarding), and add 2 more to the whole ignition table, that would result in more power.
Cylinder separated spark delay under base settings?...............................
Yeah, but you can give advance in it? I mean it shoud go negative then, but vt says out of range... Also RPM and kPa limitation isn't there.
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One more:
Cylinder separated ignition trim. For example: cyl 5 is more likely to knock, you can retard that cyl by 2deg overall (or add rpm and kpa limitiation for the retarding), and add 2 more to the whole ignition table, that would result in more power.
Cylinder separated spark delay under base settings?...............................
Yeah, but you can give advance in it? I mean it shoud go negative then, but vt says out of range... Also RPM and kPa limitation isn't there.
if the table is called delay table, so maybe it is retarding ignition with positive value in table?
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One more:
Cylinder separated ignition trim. For example: cyl 5 is more likely to knock, you can retard that cyl by 2deg overall (or add rpm and kpa limitiation for the retarding), and add 2 more to the whole ignition table, that would result in more power.
Cylinder separated spark delay under base settings?...............................
Yeah, but you can give advance in it? I mean it shoud go negative then, but vt says out of range... Also RPM and kPa limitation isn't there.
if the table is called delay table, so maybe it is retarding ignition with positive value in table?
I think you misread what i wrote. I'm ok with the ign retard, but what if i want to add more advance to specific cylinders? The value should be negative then.
Although, it is possible, by retarding all other cyl's, and adding more advance to the main ign map, but that's not too elegant.
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One more:
Cylinder separated ignition trim. For example: cyl 5 is more likely to knock, you can retard that cyl by 2deg overall (or add rpm and kpa limitiation for the retarding), and add 2 more to the whole ignition table, that would result in more power.
Cylinder separated spark delay under base settings?...............................
Yeah, but you can give advance in it? I mean it shoud go negative then, but vt says out of range... Also RPM and kPa limitation isn't there.
if the table is called delay table, so maybe it is retarding ignition with positive value in table?
I think you misread what i wrote. I'm ok with the ign retard, but what if i want to add more advance to specific cylinders? The value should be negative then.
Although, it is possible, by retarding all other cyl's, and adding more advance to the main ign map, but that's not too elegant.
Your original post suggests that you want to retard one or two cylinders away from knock so that you can tune the ignition table for MBT on the rest of the cylinders. You can achieve this with the Cylinder separated spark delay, all be it without your KPA or RPM thresholds.
Goal posts are moving ???
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Traction control - add maximum slip percentage(relative) to anytrim so it'd be adjustable by rotary switch or pot.
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Overrun Min MAP
Move IACV from Ref position to increase MAP if below a Min MAP threshold.
- With large injectors, in overrun, I am seeing pulse width drop to 0.6ms with lambda of scale lean (fuel cut disabled) almost like fuel cut. Are the injectors even opening?
- MAP sensor does not read below 20kpa. Overrun Min MAP could keep MAP above 20kpa. Good for tune.
- More air good for emissions
- Extract from Manufacturer workshop manual The ECM implements over-run fuel cut-off when the engine speed is above 1600 rev/min with engine at normal operating temperature and the TP sensor in the closed position, i.e. the vehicle is ’coasting’ with the throttle pedal released. The ECM indexes the IACV open slightly to increase the air flow through the engine to maintain a constant manifold depression to keep emissions low.
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VemsDisplay Android app:
Be able to play a warning sound when CEL occurs.
For example: lambda goes lean, CEL activated, phone plays buzzing sound to warn driver.
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One more:
If warning light occurs, when i hover the mouse on the flag, it could show the cause of the WL.
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It's just me again...
IAC forced closed above certain RPM, and the forced close DC%. Example: set to 1200rpm, DC 10% -> if engine speed is above that speed, IAC "closes" to 10%. This would result better deceleration force.
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Would like a function to add the "change of wheel speed overtime" as a trigger for any trim function and to display in log-view. The idea is to use this function during drag/streetracing and to create a traction control that will react before the wheels have spun out of control. After some passes I assume that it will be possible to find that at a certain value of acceleration the wheels will spin out of control. If the any trim function can lower the engine power before that value is achieved it would be great.
Have tried to work with the traction control built in Vemstune today but it's unable to fulfil the demands for dragracing.
//Johan