VEMS Community Forum
Members => Projects & Installs => Topic started by: bob3825 on January 06, 2009, 09:15:23 pm
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Well i just ordered my VEMS and its on the way, just wanted to introduce my project and say what a huge fan of VEMS i became after mr_G set my eyes on the controller, I live in Egypt and own a lanos 3-dr
Well here is how my system was configured:
Assembled v3.3 controller
- primary_trigger: VR
- PS2 connection: no
- MAP connection: 300kPa (6/4mm pneumatic)
- LCD connection: no
- secondary_trigger: HALL
- Knock and EGT: yes
- 1-wire interface: no
- Flyback: 30V flyback
- ignition driver: 8
and of course the EC36 and EC18 harness, a fuse holder, serial connector, econoceal crimp tool, MAT sensor, and a wideband connector since i already have a wideband sensor
Now to the car:
It started its life as a 1.3 lanos that came with some exterior mods but no performance mods what so ever
I started by the usual mods: short ram air intake,carbon fiber muffler, splitfire spark plugs, 16" momo rims, and some interior momo goodies too and then i decided it was enough spending on this poor engine and started planning an engine swap.
(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/6336/dsc02706gb5.th.jpg) (http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02706gb5.jpg)
(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2707/dsc02709sa1.th.jpg) (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02709sa1.jpg)
(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8351/dsc02708uv1.th.jpg) (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02708uv1.jpg)
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9463/dsc02707jy2.th.jpg) (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02707jy2.jpg)
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4696/dsc02723av4.th.jpg) (http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02723av4.jpg)
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4226/dsc02731rt5.th.jpg) (http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02731rt5.jpg)
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1917/dsc02741fv0.th.jpg) (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02741fv0.jpg)
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5302/dsc02724vj3.th.jpg) (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02724vj3.jpg)
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8674/dsc02755rj7.th.jpg) (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02755rj7.jpg)
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9871/img0027ab3.th.jpg) (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0027ab3.jpg)
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8071/dsc02962dm0.th.jpg) (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02962dm0.jpg)
For the engine swap i settled on 3 options, either the C20LET, the T20SED, or the A16dms
The C20LET was available here but the problem is there isn't a single spare part for this engine available, then i thought of the T20SED but again i couldn't find the pontiac Lemans mounts and i had to modify the stock mounts which isn't a good option since i'm not a good welder and there are no good welders here, so i went with the 1.6 16v and turbocharge it later on, so the next day i took the car to my mechanic's shop and started the work
(http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6039/dsc02977ew8.th.jpg) (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02977ew8.jpg)
(http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8219/dsc02978ho8.th.jpg) (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02978ho8.jpg)
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8715/dsc02979vw8.th.jpg) (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02979vw8.jpg)
(http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/636/dsc02980jv6.th.jpg) (http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02980jv6.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/474/dsc02981ej0.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02981ej0.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9374/dsc02982fj4.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02982fj4.jpg)
(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3702/dsc02985xy6.th.jpg) (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02985xy6.jpg)
(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1706/dsc02986fc0.th.jpg) (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02986fc0.jpg)
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7866/dsc02987wg6.th.jpg) (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02987wg6.jpg)
(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1803/dsc02989fl2.th.jpg) (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02989fl2.jpg)
I initially ran the car with the, new 1.6 full suspension and brakes, 1.3 wiring and ECU which was fine but this wasn't the performance i expected but i had no time to fool around with it since i had my midterms in college (4th year with double major computer science and computer engineering) so i just left it the way it was, i just installed a strut tower bar, a jvc DVD stereo (AVX1), and some other small stuff.
Then a while back a friend of mine who owned a 2.0 turbo nubira and now the proud owner of an E34 with a 4.0 V8 told me he had a spare 1.6 ecu, so i took it but couldn't get it to work since my car had a freakin immobilizer, so i went and got another 1.6 ecu coded KF which runs without an immobilizer but to my shock the performance dropped :S so i just thought since I'm going turbo soon, i would just buy a standalone and make it run perfect first and then when the turbo comes i could just modify it to suit the new setup and this is where VEMS came in
Here is a pic of me and the E34, i know my car is a bit of a 4x4 but the car had cut springs when i got it and i couldn't stand them, so its running on a stock 1.6 suspension temporary just for now until i get my springs and shocks
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2729/dsc03002hd6.th.jpg) (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03002hd6.jpg)
I will be needing a lot of your help because there isn't a single DYNO in the country so i'm just counting on the sensors and my butt so fingers crossed and hope i can get some good performance out of the engine
just want to say thanks to rob, jorgen and mr_g for all the help they provided
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Please look at my poject (the topic DU Espero 2.0t), actually I put 2.0 turbo engine into Lanos ('cos Espero crashed). I use c20xe, with custom pistons and cast conrods). It is quite hard to find c20xe and especially c20let in good condition so maybe it is good solution for you to buy used c20xe engine, overbore it and put there new low comp. pistons and conrods (they qre quite cheap in USA).
I don't think that idea with the 1.6 lanos engine is good, because it will be hard to make serious power from that engine :(
In Poland there was lanos 1.6 Turbo with power around 200hp but it seem maximum that can be achived....
Greets
Jadziwn
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Yeah i thought so that around 200 would be the max but i thought i'd give it a go until i find some pontiac lemans mounts, as for opel engines all together i can't, because our regulations say that you can't put an engine in a car of a different manufacturer so it would be illegal and that's one of the problems i had with the C20LET
I'm going to take this engine to its max potential and then do some weight reduction, and then drop it and put in a T20SED which has the same block as the C20XE i guess, so all the options for the internals would apply to me, and good luck with your lanos, I really wait for your updates and pics
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Why on earth can´t this 1.6 handle 200hp?
rods ?
pistons ?
crank ?
If none of the above then it´s not a problem
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No one said it can't ;D we were just saying that around 200 would be its limit, because i've yet to see anything for it other than forged pistons, other than that i haven't seen a single internal part that was aftermarket, but you can always go custom on everything which would cost a fortune and you could get the same power with something much more affordable
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I´ve never seen or heard of an engine that can´t even support such small powerlevels.
I´m surten that 250hp would be easy on that engine.
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Only time will tell how much the engine could take, i just can't wait to hook up my VEMS and start mapping
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The weak point of this engine are pistons. This engine is 105hp in serie and I have never heard that someone made more than 200hp on stock "internals". But I have heard about several engines that gave up at 200hp.
Jadzwin
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If its pistons then that's easy, there are Wiseco pistons i think available from daftart, i'd love to push the engine to over 200 hp
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That looks basically like the UK vauxhall Ecotec engine, which is a nice unit once you get the horrid, horrid intake system off. People out there are selling 'Intake Power Boxes', which basically boils down to a well designed plenum! The prices for these tho are often or not near ITB money.
Have a look at SBD website, these people are THE vauxhall people. They claim 164hp NA (from 109 stock) from only tapered ITB setup, and there are a lot of customer backup statements to this on MIG web etc.
I grew fond of mine (was in a Mk3 Astra). Basically, what I'm saying is, even a well designed plenum will outperform the stock inlet, and will enhance the turbo kit immensley. So get the welder out and polish up your sheet metal skills lol :D
Good luck with the project
-Gavin
*edit* Sorry, the power figures given were for the GSi head which is a better casting....tweak those figures down a bit for your casting! *edit*
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In Lanos there is variable volume intake controlled by electrovalve :) but I don't know how good is this.
That is true that for Opel / Vauxhal ecotek engines changing intake manifold makes incredible power increase.
Lanos engine seems to be based on Ecotec engine, with the same DELCO IEFI ECU as is in x16xel.
What is funny if you put c20xe engine into Lanos, and you will use stock Lanos ECU and Lanos harness (withs some minor changes) you gain extra 10hp over stock engine :)
Jadzwin
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That looks basically like the UK vauxhall Ecotec engine, which is a nice unit once you get the horrid, horrid intake system off. People out there are selling 'Intake Power Boxes', which basically boils down to a well designed plenum! The prices for these tho are often or not near ITB money.
Have a look at SBD website, these people are THE vauxhall people. They claim 164hp NA (from 109 stock) from only tapered ITB setup, and there are a lot of customer backup statements to this on MIG web etc.
I grew fond of mine (was in a Mk3 Astra). Basically, what I'm saying is, even a well designed plenum will outperform the stock inlet, and will enhance the turbo kit immensley. So get the welder out and polish up your sheet metal skills lol :D
Good luck with the project
-Gavin
*edit* Sorry, the power figures given were for the GSi head which is a better casting....tweak those figures down a bit for your casting! *edit*
Just as jadzwin said about the VGIS, but i don't know if i should get rid of it or keep it in there, i've thought of getting rid of it and making a custom intake before but i thought i'd just keep it for now and bolt the turbo setup and see what kind of power i'll make, and then make a custom one and compare and simply the better stays, and i'll just control the VGIS with the VEMS since i will only be using 4 injector drivers for sequential injection, so i'll use one of the free ones and engage it at 4500 RPM as the OEM does, because people have tried different engagement points but always resulted in loss of power, so i kind of like the variable bit in it where you can choose between short and long runners for torque and hp.
Actually right now i have alot of power that is lost and i can't find, when i had a drag with a friend who has 4 door 1.5 lanos(de-cat, CAI, Groundint kit, and some stuff) I just barely won the drag, with a difference of half a car, i'm sorry but this is just not acceptable, this was with the 1.3 ecu so thought it was an ecu issue and the difference in maps and stuff, but when i got the 1.6 ecu, the car became even slower and it backfires like hell, i tested the ignition system and all seems well, and tried with OEM injectors and bmw 316 bosch injectors and still everything seems fine, and that's when i decided to VEMS, i really hope for alot of gains or i'm going to go nuts because i can't seem to find anything wrong other than ecu.
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Guys i need a bit of help regarding my fuel pump relay, i just want to say i'm reusing my factory harness
so this is a pic of the ecu diagram regarding the fuel system and a pic of how the relay should be wired in the VEMS manual, and looking at it it seems to be connected in a different way, i just want to know will it work, or have i read the diagram wrong, or i should rewire it according to the VEMS manual?
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9325/picture1me8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://vems.hu/manual/html/images/ConnectingFuelPump.png)
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The only wire you should need to wire is the
BLK/WHT wire on the diagram (going from A12-ECU to 85-Relay) to your relay into EC36-15
The car handles the rest of the pump operations , 12v to the relay, 12v to the pump , fuse for the pump
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yes that's the logic thing to do, but i just hesitated because it is routed differently than in the manual
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The factory ecu has the coil power and and switched power from different sources. The connection I've recommended shares the same fused power supply.
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then i guess its better to keep it on the factories way since its more safer that way
There is something else, I see that most people and in Rob's user guide that it is better to use the Stepper chanels to control ignition which is great since i have a DIS wasted spark with 2 coils, with cylinder 1&4 on coil A and 2&3 on coil B, but i also have a stepper motor iac which also should be wired to the 4 stepper channels, so what should i do? shall i just control the coil packs with the normal ignition channels or is there another way, i couldn't find anything related in the ignition section
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If you plan on running the iac using the stepper then you can just use the ignition outputs to run your wasted spark coil.
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pardon me for the stupid question but is there another way to run the iac?
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Definitely stick to using the stepper in order to control the IACV.
When it comes to driving the coils, you can use either the existing ignition amplifier, or the IGBTs in the box - which would only mean running two wires from the VEMS to the coils. Have you got the schematics for the ignition like the one for the fuel pump?
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pardon me for the stupid question but is there another way to run the iac?
You could replace it and use a simple Bosch PWM type.
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Oh you meant change the iac itself, i'll see if this bosch PWM came in any of the BMWs since i have immediate access to bmw spare parts
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Lots of BMW options with IACV
But try to sort the ignition out without using the stepper if you can
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Ok i'll just connect them to 2 of the 8 ignition drivers and keep the steppers for the iac
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i need someone kind enough to review these ignition settings just to make sure everything is right, the firing order is 1-3-4-2, and i have coil 1(Cyl 1&4) connected to EC36-pin35 and coil 2 (Cyl 2&3) to EC36-pin33, I know i progress slowly but my semester's final exams so only get about 1 hour everyday free to work on the install but my final exam is tomorrow so hopefully i'll finish in the weekend
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4603/picture1ma6.jpg)
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4698/picture2sj8.jpg)
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Those charge times look a little bit low - Id be expecting something around 2ms.
Don't forget that the table reads from the highest cell down so you have it setup: EC36pin33, EC36pin35, EC36pin33, EC36pin35 or 2&3, 1&4, 2&3, and 1&4
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oh so its 3-1-2-4 instead of 1-3-4-2
as for the coil charge time, i don't understand quite exactly how to calculate it, if i understand correctly then the coil charge time is the dwell which has a formula
T = (-L/R) * ln( 1 - (R * I / V))
where,
T is the time i want, no problem here
V is the voltage which is 14 and 6 volts
L is the inductance which i have no idea how to measure it on my DIS
R is the resistance which i know how to measure but don't know if its the primary resistance or the secondary one
I is the current and i don't know how to measure it either
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Nice to see that you are calculating things, but coils don't work in the same way as steady state resistors.
Current rises rapidly in an inductor:
(http://people.sinclair.edu/nickreeder/eet150/PageArt/exponentialRLcurrent.gif)
So to work out the correct dwell you'd need to calculate the amount of spark energy that the plug will need to fire, then work back from the secondary coil to the primary - so you'd need to know the number of windings as a bare minimum then factor in loads of stuff I dont understand.
But what we find in reality is that we use a rule of thumb for these sorts of things - Coil on plugs usually take 1.2 to 2ms, coil packs 2ms to 4ms, single coils with distributors tend to take more (never done one so I can't comment).
The tuning process is to start low and see how you get on - with a coil pack like you have I'd go for 3 to 3.5 and try increasing 0.25ms at a time if you don't get a spark (Ford EDIS coilpacks need 3.8ms before they spark) once you're running you may find some high RPM misfires occur if your dwell is too low, once again you can increase the dwell a little if this happens.
Most importantly you need to use a fuse to protect things if you use a 6 to 7A fuse you shouldn't burn out anything that way.
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Now you got me wanting to know more about this so its reading and research time but for now i'll start at about 2.5 or 3 ms and watch out for high rpm misfires and increase the dwell accordingly
also my stock wiring uses a 15A, so i guess if i change it to a 6A one during dwell tuning i'd be fine
(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9915/picture1gd2.jpg)
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Forgot to ask, doesn't VEMS need any injector grounds? because i see my stock ecu has 2 pins for injector grounds so should i just leave those 2 wires unconnected or connect them with the sensor grounds ?
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5728/picture2pp4.jpg)
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Yes the injector grounds are vital, make sure that you read the UserGuide's grounding information, especially this diagram:
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSUserManual/VEMSToFactoryGrounds.png)
The factory ECU Grounds should be sufficient in number to connect all of your standard ECU grounds to the common grounding point.
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so I should follow this diagram and ignore the other one where there is a 6mm2 wire from the common point to the block or head and everything will work fine?
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I am guessing that you are splicing into the original loom. If so you need to use the factory grounds.
If you're making your own loom then stick to the common point to the block or head.
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yeah i'm splicing into the factory loom and i'm trying to keep it as factory as possible
as for the factory sensor grounds, do they go to the common point or between pin26 and the common point, because in the factory ecu i have some sensors grounded together in one wire at the ecu, i know i asked a lot about grounds but i see everywhere how important they are and i want them perfect, if you want i can give you a link to the factory ecu diagram to see all the connections
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yeah i'm splicing into the factory loom and i'm trying to keep it as factory as possible
as for the factory sensor grounds, do they go to the common point or between pin26 and the common point, because in the factory ecu i have some sensors grounded together in one wire at the ecu, i know i asked a lot about grounds but i see everywhere how important they are and i want them perfect, if you want i can give you a link to the factory ecu diagram to see all the connections
Put all the factory grounds into the common point.
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If i do that then i won't have any sensor grounds, since i'm keeping the factory wiring, so is this right or will there be high noise?
it will be more like this
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2882/vemstofactorygroundspx4.png)
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I thought you said that you have a sensor ground in the factory wiring though?
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yes but what i meant is that if i connect all the factory ground to the common point then all the sensor grounds will be in those factory grounds at the common point not as your diagram, here is a link to the factory ecu diagram so you can see it clearly, its only a bit over 500kb
http://rapidshare.com/files/187981381/ECM_Wiring.pdf
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(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSUserManual/VEMSToFactoryGrounds.png)
To Common Ground point.
A12
D1
C12
C13
To Sensor Grounds:
A11
D2
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Can't thank you enough rob
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A new problem for today ;D
I have this strange wideband O2, its a bosch LSU 4.2 and has a code of 0258007206 and it has a different connector than the one in the webshop so i have to slice the wires manually
i know how its supposed to be connected but i have a heater + and - while the diagram has only 1 heater input and pump + and - so i'm a bit confused here
(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3530/picture3fd0.jpg)
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2738/picture1od1.jpg)
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4307/picture2kx9.jpg)
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Hi,
I looked into using different LSU 4s with VEMs as I could get one cheaper elsewhere. They're not interchangeable as far as I could work out. They have a different chemical make up and therefore react differently.
On the other hand you may just need to ground the heater- to get it working?
Cheers,
Gavin :)
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Well i have the plx devices sm-afr so it comes with its own controller and its working perfectly now, if this sensor won't work with VEMS then i'll look into just connecting the wideband output from the controller to the VEMS unit, i don't know why i always get to work with the hardest and most annoying versions of everything
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See if you can use any of the information here:
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=WideBand
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It turned out i have that special type of sensor used by MOTEC and i only have to color match the wires apparently from that link
here is quote and if i got it wrong please tell me
{
Here is a link about the pinout of the WBO2 sensor with the little connector. Theese sensors used by MOTEC.
* [drawing for the \"6066\"] sensor that only differs from our standard type in the connector (straight, 1x6 instead of the U-shape 2x3). Colors match (Bosch was consistent)
}
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Was just wondering if this grounding is ok, of course the ecu factory grounds will go into the other side of this metal part and the sensor grounds in the part cut and everything will be soldered
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3339/img0002os6.th.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0002os6.jpg)
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Thats Looking okay
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Ok great now i'll get to connecting VEMS because i'm having some serial to usb problems but hope i could get around them
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Today i got vems connected and tested it with succes and everything, and connected everything up, but i need some help in the configuration
1- i need help in configuring the injectors as they are connected now on the vehicle as pairs because i have no idea how to in mega tune
2- i need someone to review my msq file so i can turn over the car safely
here is the msq, its 1.0.73 version firmware and 16x14 maps
http://rapidshare.com/files/196141419/Lanos_no_turbo_1_first_run_.msq.html
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Where did you get your base config from?
Are the injectors wired in pairs with the original loom?
Have you calibrated your Wideband sensor? Please make sure for start-up tests that you don't have any fuel going into the car so either disconnect the injector's connectors, or, remove the injector's fuse. And for the first tests I'd have the coil disconnected.
The tests I'd do are:
Check fuel pump primes correctly.
Check your battery settings
Check the operation of the throttle position sensor
Check the air and water sensors
Crank the engine without sparks or fuel
If a steady sensible RPM speed is seen, connect the ignition pack and use a timing light to verify the ignition timing.
If all of these tests go correctly, connect up the injectors and try cranking the car.
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actually my base config is from scratch, the injectors are wired in pairs 1&4 and 2&3
i actually have no idea about the config and tables files, do i have to burn them to the controller or is burning the msq file enough or what exactly?
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ok i cranked the car now with no fuel or spark and the car read rpm correctly at about 200-210 rpm while cranking and i calibrated tps and it reads ok, i have a question, if i connect fuel and spark and no wideband, can i crank the car and start
also please review my spark map i have no idea about it
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just to update i connected the fuel pump and it primes ok, and i connected everything except the injectors and it was great till the point i got no spark??? is this related to ignition settings or trigger settings so i can trace it down
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Rob, i need a bit of help with the firmware, i now acquired two config.txt files and tables.txt for a similar setup as mine, but i need a bit of help as what to do with them, note that the config are from a genboard 3.1
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What are you having problems with and why use those configs?
Is there anything you aren´t able to fill in the software from ground that is in the configs?
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i don't even know what to do with the config, i have filled in the msq file but the problem now is i'm not getting spark, so i thought it was something to do with the config file
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Can you post your timing sensor system ?
30-1 , 60-2 , cam/crank on the camshaft?
Then post your msq.
Are you getting RPM readings?
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my wheel is a crank wheel with 60-2 and its a vr sensor
and rpm reading is about 200-220 while cranking
i measured now the angle between the missing teeth and the tdc tooth (tooth 19) is about 100 deg and about 90 between the tdc tooth and the vr sensor which is supposed to be 40-60 as per the manual
here is the msq file
http://rapidshare.com/files/196461123/Lanos_no_turbo_1_first_run_.msq.html
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1.0.73 12x12 Standard?
Your ignition table is upside down.
And your Revlimit is 0 . So at any rpm above that it will cut the spark.
;)
EDIT.
Wierdly the spark table is upside down in the 2d look , but not in the 3d view.
That is very strange.
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Okay, first off - spark.
I notice that you have ignition outputs on 33 and 35, you have the 4+4 option:
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSUserManual/CoilOptions/IgnitionOption4+4.png)
You need to have the wires connected to 34 and 36 and set the Ignition Outputs correctly.
Rob
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No i have 8 high output ignitions, i told katalin on the vems shop that we would modify it and she confirmed that she shipped it with the 8 option, but i'll wire it that way just in case and see, i also checked the coil pack and the ground and power are fine
they are just not getting a signal from vems, i'll the rpm limit first and try, i set the rpm limit in the settings but not in the soft rpm limiters, so if not then i'll re-wire it to 34 and 36 and i'll update you with how things go
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ok so i configured the soft rpm limiters and tried with no hope of starting
then i re wired the ignition to pin 34 and 36 and modified the ignition outputs accordingly and again there is no signal from vems to the coil packs
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can you record a log and post it online?
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sure this is a datalog i took now but this wasn't while cranking, i just have 2 things on mind, when you load the msq file you will notice 7 errors all related to h2 table and 1 for boost controller, and also on the main vems screen, there is no spark angle!!!
well here is the datalog untill i get one while cranking
http://rapidshare.com/files/196583065/datalog200902101511.xls.html
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That´s because your ignition angle at cranking is 0 degress.
What where you doing when you did the log?
The ecu resets as the voltage goes down.
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oh that was just the switch for the vems power moved out of its place so it cut power and brought it back, but fixed that
i really don't know what's wrong
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A log from the cranking is next to do :)
Have you physically tested the coils?
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yes, my coil has 4 wires
1 ground
1 +12v supply
1 coil1 signal
1 coil2 signal
i connected a test bulb to ground and 12v supply and it worked great
then i connected it to the ground and to each of the coil signal wires while cranking and it never lit up
i'll get you a log first thing in the morning because i really have to get some sleep, it's 3:22 am here ;D
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Can you download your config as described here: http://195.159.109.134/vemsuk/forum/index.php/topic,120.0.html
Send it in an email to me
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i tried doing that but it always told me that there is some kind of error with generate-config.bat
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COM port selected properly?
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Some kind of error could be anything - if you can post here what the error says we might have a better time supporting this and moving forward.
As long as the download config has worked there will be a new copy of config.txt and tables.txt in the config folder, just email these to me please and I'll take a look.
Rob
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ok i tried again and it worked flawlessly, i haven't changed anything, well rob i emailed you the config file and gunni here is the log while cranking, i took 3 cranks as you will see
http://rapidshare.com/files/196777356/datalog200902111512.xls.html
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What I'll do is put the configs and tables on my test bench, and see what I can find.
Then either send you the configs and tables back or an MSQ file.
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ok great rob, i really appreciate the help mate
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I loaded up the config file you sent me and it was rubbish, there's no way you'd have got an RPM with it...
The fact that your tables file only downloaded one line suggests that there is a comms problem which is screwing the setup.
I've dug out a C20LET firmware release:
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSInstalls/VemsMT1.0.73C20.zip
Rob
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The problem is i never updated the config that came with the controller, i just burned the msq file and that's it
So should i update the whole firmware or just the config?
oh and i forgot to mention that in the terminal program, if i try to send manmdV, the controller replies with charachters i don't understand, it never replies with the firmware version
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The problem is i never updated the config that came with the controller, i just burned the msq file and that's it
So should i update the whole firmware or just the config?
oh and i forgot to mention that in the terminal program, if i try to send manmdV, the controller replies with charachters i don't understand, it never replies with the firmware version
Man
It's veary important to use capital M
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Use the firmware and config off that C20 release then test RPM, setup your ignition, wideband controller settings from the webshop email.
then customise for your application.
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oooh then the capital is my fault
rob, i'll do just that, but i never got that webshop email about the wideband, even in your guide you left some values in the wideband settings and said they should be supplied with any assembled controller but i never got those
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There will have been a load of cryptic numbers on the send out form - failing that go into the webshop, and on the order details page you'll see the pump_pw and nernst values there.
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Rob, i generated the config and tables and uploaded them to vems succesfully
then i uploaded the firmware within this c20let release, but i notice that its configured only for high boost, i don't get the option to choose between 12x12 and 16x14, anyway, i modified it to suit my engine but still no spark, i suspect it might be something in the wiring that slipped my mind
look at this diagram, i circled a part i don't know what that is, because what i did was connect c14 to pin 34 and d14 to pin 36, i was just wondering if this thing i don't know might preventing a signal to the coil pack
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6135/picture1cd0.jpg)
and there is definitely something wrong with all those .bat files, because when i try Manmct, it gives me the full tables file, but the download config never finishes, don't know why
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That is a connector called C105.
You ignition pins are number 5 and 7.
They go on from the ecu to the coil driver and connect to terminals A and B.
You should double check continuity from pin 34 and 36 to the terminals A and B
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I see the box labelled Coil Driver which suggests that you have a coil with built-in igniters, which will never work with the built-in igniters in the ECU.
I'm betting that you need the stepper driver for the idle control.
You may be best to find a coil pack without a built-in Coil Driver.
The tables file will download if it starts, just leave it for longer than you thought possible - or now that you use the Terminal you can type (after Man) mcd and mct which will download the config and the tables onto the screen, which you can then copy and paste into config.txt and tables.txt files.
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I found the terminal to be easier and more reliable since i see what's going on, and i don't decide how long i leave it, the command window shuts automatically :D
about the ignition, if i connect it to the stepper motor outputs will it work? because i guess it would be easier if i just changed my iac
and gunni i was asking because i thought also that there could be a discontinuity so i wanted to connect the coils directly to vems
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You can certainly test: http://195.159.109.134/vemsuk/forum/index.php/topic,441.0.html
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i'll give it a go and see what happens, fingers crossed
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If i decide to go COP, do i have to look for anything that won't work with VEMS, they will mainly be from a bmw
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All the BMW COP´s are normal inductive coils.
So you´ll have to use the IGBT´s instead of the stepper motor.
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That's great, then i could go back to normal operation, ignition driven with ignition drivers and iac driven by stepper motor
this is taking a lot of time :D
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Ok so i definitely have spark now with the stepper motor, but i can't get the car to start
what's happening now is i crank the car and it feels like it wants to start and then all of a sudden i hear a bang from the exhaust, i'm using the config from a c20xe in the firmware release you gave me rob not the c20let because it runs on high boost, and then i modified the msq to suit my engine, and i'm stuck now on those bangs, here is the msq file
http://rapidshare.com/files/197626864/temp_from_c20xe.msq.html
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Now your talking! ;D
Are you sure that the ignition is not 180deg out? What cranking PW and advance are you running.
How are the plugs looking? Are you rich or lean?
Rob
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how can i check if the ignition is 180 deg out?or what are the symptoms?
And these are the settings, i didn't change them much from the c20xe because i didn't want to mess it up as the config i messed up ;D
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3571/picture1jh4.jpg)
give me 5 minutes i'll go check the plugs
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I checked the plugs and they are full of carbon build up so i'm running very very rich
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Hi,
Check with a timing light on the crank pulley timing marks.
Or the Ghetto way is to just swap the two trigger wires from VEMs to the coil pack around and see what happens then.
Cheers,
Gavin :)
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I have no timing timing light and i don't think its sold here, i asked lots of people and friends but with no hope, i guess i have to try the ghetto way
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i tried swapping the vr sensor wires but that just resulted in strange rpm readings
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No he mean the wires FROM the ecu TO the coil pack.
i.e move the pairs of cylinders that fire.
That way your moving the ignition timing 180Deg.
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oooh sorry i thought he meant the trigger wires, i'll try that and see if it will work
but won't that have the same effect as swapping the values in the ignition outputs from
0---->Stepper A
1---->Stepper B
2---->Stepper A
3---->Stepper B
to
0---->Stepper B
1---->Stepper A
2---->Stepper B
3---->Stepper A
or am i mistaken?because i tried that already
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Changing the order of the outputs is exactly the same as swapping the wires, and loads easier!
You really need a timing light, they must have them in commercial garages over where you are. The clip onto the battery, and have a 3rd clip that attaches to one of the HT wires.
A nice simple one like this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WE1ZS87XL._SS400_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-52616-Xenon-Timing-Light/dp/B0001K9V3Q
Would be perfect.
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Ok i'll go search in this commercial area over here and hope i find one, if not then i'll have to order one and wait for it
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i managed today to dig up the wiki (which i don't know how to use ;D) and managed to find the trigger settings for a similar setup as mine and they actually worked, but the car still doesn't want to start, what happens is i crank the car, it responds normally and actually feels that it wants to start and reaches about 650 rpm but then just dies out, so i'm guessing its my afterstart settings or either my VE, spark or both maps are off
just trying to get the car started untill i find a timing light
advice please ???
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Well now you´r getting into the tuning phase it seems.
Do the trick where you set crank threshold rpm to 2000rpm
Then adjust the cranking PW until your engine catches and is able to run.
You can adjust the timing to keep it running. When your able to start it like this
you can lower the crank threshold rpm and tune from their on.
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I guess this is the tuning phase since any plating around with the cranking and afterstart settings changes the way the car tries to start
and by adjusting the timing you mean the spark table or something else?
i'll give that trick a go and see what happens
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Crank advance
in the crank, priming & afterstart settings.
Should be 10 to get running and idling.
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ok great, i'll update you on how things go
i love the support on the forum
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Been out of the country for a while, but since i'm back from 2 days, i tried going back to stock temporarily because i have college from next week and i need the car and it took me 2 days to come to this situation
i had to replace the starter motor because it died on me, i tried checking all the sensors and wiring because the car doesn't want to start
but today while checking i had the ignition on and noticed the check engine light kept going on and off, and when i try wiggling its wire around it works fine and if i wiggle again it goes off
my question is, is there any thing wrong with cutting a wire and reconnecting it, does the resistance go up, am i connecting it wrong, because all i do is insert a wire shrink, twist them together and then heat the shrink until it hold on them
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the resistance difference should be almost impossble to measure between a joined wire and a single peice.
Rob
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i thought so too, but is there any solution to this or am i stuck?
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if you are wigging wires and the light is going off then you may have a dry joint.
Personally if I had no problems with the car I'd find the position that turns the check light off and make sure it doesnt come on again ;)
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Are you actually soldering the wires or just twisting them?
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With my stupidity i just twisted them so they shouldn't work, i'll solder all tomorrow and things should run fine i guess, thanks guys