VEMS Community Forum
Members => Projects & Installs => Topic started by: lost on April 27, 2009, 04:48:36 pm
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http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=5a425598988c42be0c814df2efeadc50e04e75f6e8ebb871
hi, on the top is direct link for my configuration , i'm using:
firmware_1.1.44alpha2 -- VEMSv3-12x12-STD
I have not yet, started engine.
All sensors are mounted and working except egt( not mounted yet) and knock. tryed heat on wbo2 and i'ts ok
it's connected according to this:
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FPhatBob%2FUserGuide
-I'm using standard distributor, and one ignition coil connected to: ignition00-pin35
-injectors 1-6 are connected to injector 1 do 6 chanel 1,2,4,8,16,32
-injector #7 chanel 64 is boost valve
-injector #8 chanel 128 is idle valve
-primary trigger vr 60-2 stock alfa
-alfa v6 fire order: 1,4,2,5,3,6
-injektors bosch-702 cca 186cc?
-engine alfa 164-v6 turbo garret t25 1996ccm 8:1
-Max. output: 209.8 PS (207 bph) (154.3 kW) @ 6000 rpm
Max. torque: 289 Nm (213.1 lbft) (29.4 kgm) @ 2750 rpm
help, i don't have any tables ve, lambda, anythingm this is my first setup :)
here is someones config from alfa N/A 3.0 v6 engine.
Thx.
You can mail me it willing to help @ [email protected]
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(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1213/dejov6.th.jpg) (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dejov6.jpg)
Let's try step by step :)
I'm not sure how to configure this....
injectors ar connected as fully sequential.
car setup:
-primary trigger vr 60-2 stock alfa
-alfa v6 fire order: 1,4,2,5,3,6
-injectors bosch-702 cca 186cc?
-engine alfa 164-v6 turbo garret t25 1996ccm 8:1
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(http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/707/dejov62.th.jpg) (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dejov62.jpg)
and i need to primary trigger settings :)
-primary trigger vr 60-2 stock alfa
-alfa v6 fire order: 1,4,2,5,3,6
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According to the first picture and firing order.
your h[0] table should be.
32
4
16
2
8
1
64
128
For the injector settings
0
504
4080
640
100
25.5ms
1
5..0
Alternate
For Primary trigger settings
Falling
Multitooth
Disabled
Disabled
N-2
Normal
TDC after trigger tooth, this you have to check. likely 70-90 for a Bosch 60-2 wheel
Number of teeth. 60
Trigger tooth 3
Next Trigger tooth 20
Crank min 2224
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According to the first picture and firing order.
your h[0] table should be.
32
4
16
2
8
1
64
128
For the injector settings
0
504
4080
640
100
25.5ms
1
5..0
Alternate
For Primary trigger settings
Falling
Multitooth
Disabled
Disabled
N-2
Normal
TDC after trigger tooth, this you have to check. likely 70-90 for a Bosch 60-2 wheel
Number of teeth. 60
Trigger tooth 3
Next Trigger tooth 20
Crank min 2224
Angular width of tooth : 6
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i found out that :
"Trigger gap centre is 90 degrees BTDC on all the Alfa V6 motors I've played with so far."
is that it?
Thanks alot!
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That would be it, but you need to confirm that with a timing light and your injectors unhooked.
while looking at your TDC mark where that is on your engine.
Post up more of your screenshots if you are having further problems
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here is something from the workshop manual for alfa 3.0 v6, it's basicly the same engine...
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4387/dejov63.th.jpg) (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dejov63.jpg)
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Do you have maybe links to ve /spark/lambda mat tables from some similar turbo engine? i could use for first engine start with vems?
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Are you sure about EDGE-FALLING , becuse here it says : When using a VR sensor the ECU must be configured to trigger on the rising edge of a tooth.
http://www.vems.hu/manual/html/ch09.html#Detailed.Sensor.RPM.Config
?
Thanks!
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If you take a look at a VR sinus wave you can see that the signal crosses 0v at a long period and that may trigger the ecu
over a large range, tricking the ecu in actually thinking that the crank is elsewhere.
(http://mjscrane.com/GTS1000/files/YZF1000_trace.jpg)
check out this picture,
See how sharp the falling edge is and long the rising edge is?
the ecu triggers when the signal passes 0v.,
That´s why normally falling edge is used.
I will never use rising edge with a VR sensor.
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Looking at the scope trace there:
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSTrigger/YZF1000_traceCommented.JPG)
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here is something from the workshop manual for alfa 3.0 v6, it's basicly the same engine...
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4387/dejov63.th.jpg) (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dejov63.jpg)
and what about this?
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That´s cam timing.
And since vems doesn´t support fully sequential with adjustable injection start or end timing it´s of no use.
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As i don't have any maps/ tables for alfa v6, i'l try to use these basic fuel tables
http://195.159.109.134/vemsuk/forum/index.php/topic,351.0.html
http://www.vems.co.uk/UserContributions/AntonCH/TargetLambda.jpg
http://www.vems.co.uk/UserContributions/AntonCH/VEtable.jpg
Is this ok? ???
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got this using online msq ve clac.
EVEME 1.0 //VEX format version
UserRev: 1.02
UserComment: Automatically generated
Date: 04-28-109
Time: 15:06
Page 0
VE Table RPM Range [ 8] # expressed in RPM/100
[ 0] = 5
[ 1] = 10
[ 2] = 19
[ 3] = 28
[ 4] = 37
[ 5] = 46
[ 6] = 55
[ 7] = 64
VE Table Load Range (MAP) [ 8]
[ 0] = 20
[ 1] = 45
[ 2] = 70
[ 3] = 95
[ 4] = 115
[ 5] = 140
[ 6] = 165
[ 7] = 190
VE Table [ 8][ 8]
[ 0] [ 1] [ 2] [ 3] [ 4] [ 5] [ 6] [ 7]
[ 0] = 58 60 61 62 61 59 56 53
[ 1] = 68 70 72 73 72 70 67 64
[ 2] = 78 81 83 84 83 80 76 72
[ 3] = 89 91 94 95 94 91 86 82
[ 4] = 97 99 103 103 102 99 94 89
[ 5] = 107 110 113 114 113 109 104 99
[ 6] = 117 120 124 125 124 120 114 108
[ 7] = 127 131 135 136 135 130 124 118
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Do you have a clean RPM signal?
If not, worry about tables and maps later.
If so, then set your ignition table to 20degrees across the entire table, this is all you will need to get running.
VE table can be set to 75%
Rob
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Vems is on the desk il't try rpm again later in car with these settings provided by gunni (got rpm before with wrong toothwheel settings)
Multitooth
Disabled
Disabled
N-2
Normal
TDC after trigger tooth, this you have to check. likely 70-90 for a Bosch 60-2 wheel (90)
Number of teeth. 60
Trigger tooth 3
Next Trigger tooth 20
Crank min 2224
this is my calculated ve table :
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2059/dejove.jpg) (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dejove.jpg)
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/dejove.jpg/1/w654.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img524/dejove.jpg/1/)
and this is cranck / afterstart settings.
Is 10 degree crack advance OK?
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7540/dejocranck.jpg) (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dejocranck.jpg)
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/dejocranck.jpg/1/w486.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img205/dejocranck.jpg/1/)
on the spark table i filled out full table with 20.00 deg values under al fields.
what about target lambda table fill entire table with 1.00 lambda values?
thanks
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and this is lamda table so far :-\
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7238/dejolambda.jpg) (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dejolambda.jpg)
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/dejolambda.jpg/1/w638.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img262/dejolambda.jpg/1/)
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Lambda below 70kpa = 1
lambda from 70-100kpa = 0.9
lambda above that = 0.8
Also you should scale the graph a bit better, i.e equal amounts of pressure between each row.
like
20,40,60,80,100 and so on.
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Number of teeth should be 58 for 60-2 wheel and toothwidth 6.00 deg.
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Number of teeth should be 58 for 60-2 wheel and toothwidth 6.00 deg.
So i do i need to change this gunni?
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Yea, sorry my bad.
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Number of teeth should be 58 for 60-2 wheel and toothwidth 6.00 deg.
6 deg? what needs to be changed ?
I dont understand.
edit: figured it afer looking at trigger settings out that's angular width of tooth :)
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everything is connected now in-car 8)
i temp coolant map tps looks ok.
injector config is burned to ecu :) but i didn't connectet 123456 chanel to injectors, onley flyback to all injectors with disconnectet +12 relay fuse to injectors, and fused +12 to ignition coil.
question is : CAN I TRY TO turn-on engine to check RPM signal with no injector signal 123456 connected. i don't want to kill FETs.
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everything is connected now in-car 8)
i temp coolant map tps looks ok.
injector config is burned to ecu :) but i didn't connectet 123456 chanel to injectors, onley flyback to all injectors with disconnectet +12 relay fuse to injectors, and fused +12 to ignition coil.
question is : CAN I TRY TO turn-on engine to check RPM signal with no injector signal 123456 connected. i don't want to kill FETs.
Sure you can, remove fuelpump, injector and coil fuses to be sure.
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thanks :D
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NO SPARK ::) ::) ::) ::)
-I'm using standard (STOCK) distributor, and one ignition coil connected to: ignition00-pin35
-primary trigger vr 60-2 stock alfa
-v6 engine
i get rpm signal 50rpm with empty battery...
connected like this.
(http://www.vems.hu/manual/html/images/ConnectingSingleCoil.png)
ignition driver is soldered in DR00 :
(http://www.vems.hu/manual/html/images/ConfiguringWS.jpg)
and this is my ignition config screenshoot:
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4277/dejoign.jpg)
ignitin setting: dwell @13.2v is 3.07ms/ dummy ignition
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5521/dejocoilchrg.jpg)
i suspect ignition config is somehow wrong.
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set ignition outputs to 05..00, set output channels all to 0(35), set reftooth h1 table from top to bottom: 0 40 20 0 40 20, check h2 that there is ign on top 8 and 0 on bottom 8 selection.
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Change the output to 00..05
And in the Ignition output
change all the 0-5 outputs to PIN35.
ahh Sambas beat me to it :)
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Ignition type is not EDIS,its DUMMY!
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set ignition outputs to 05..00, set output channels all to 0(35), set reftooth h1 table from top to bottom: 0 40 20 0 40 20, check h2 that there is ign on top 8 and 0 on bottom 8 selection.
thanks!
setting it up now.
h2 looks ok ign's an zeros.
h1 was empty just 0 0 0 ...
and ign was like on the picture...
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some screen shoots...
it's rainy freezing here in croatia :)
still no luck no spark. i'l try with spare coil.
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9513/image4z.jpg) (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image4z.jpg)
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/image4z.jpg/1/w314.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img149/image4z.jpg/1/)
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5687/image1dsf.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image1dsf.jpg)
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/image1dsf.jpg/1/w315.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img26/image1dsf.jpg/1/)
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1038/image2cqr.jpg) (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image2cqr.jpg)
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/image2cqr.jpg/1/w323.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img13/image2cqr.jpg/1/)
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6079/image3f.jpg) (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image3f.jpg)
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/image3f.jpg/1/w315.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img140/image3f.jpg/1/)
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is it ok to check if coil is getting GND signal from pin 35? there is +12 on coil... using dvm on coil + an - while trying to start?
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Yes just unhook both wires from your coil and use a beep test on the signal wire to ground
then when the ecu grounds to create a signal you´ll hear the beeping.
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are u getting any trigger errors?
P.S
Gde si u Hrvatskoj? Ja imam broj od nekog Ante,mislim da je u Zagrebu,ako budes imao mnogo muke da zovnes coveka,mozda pomogne....?
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http://www.sendspace.com/file/0wm2ns (http://www.sendspace.com/file/0wm2ns)
above is my log file .xls
2bmw : ma ne zelim nikoga zivkat i davit. nadam se rješit ovako preko foruma :)
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Yes just unhook both wires from your coil and use a beep test on the signal wire to ground
then when the ecu grounds to create a signal you´ll hear the beeping.
using beep test on dvm between pin 35 ign00 and ground i dont get any readings or hear beeps ...
dvm is working ok.
so what's my options. i have external ignition driver next to bosch coil. il take a picture. don't know how to connect it. does this mean i have to unsolder ignition driver fet from the board?
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here is stock coil diver - bosch:
http://img7.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture3010.jpg
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3158/picture3010.th.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3010.jpg)
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/518/picture3006.th.jpg) (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3006.jpg)
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3628/picture3007b.th.jpg) (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3007b.jpg)
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8398/picture3008.th.jpg) (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3008.jpg)
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/710/picture3009.th.jpg) (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3009.jpg)
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here it is:
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2013/vemsignctrl.jpg) (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vemsignctrl.jpg)
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/vemsignctrl.jpg/1/w730.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img9/vemsignctrl.jpg/1/)
can anyone check log to see why vems dont have coil signal on pin 35?
and how to wire this "electronic ignition module" to vems do i have to remove ignition driver from the board?
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i'm thinking of connectin external ignition control module to pin 36. that's ignition otput 30 and i dont have anything solder on vems board on it's (ign 30) place.
will it work?
can i do beep DVM test on pin 35 after changing config to pin 36..?
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You have a few choices:
If you have a channel on the VEMS that is populated with an IGBT you could connect directly to pin B on the coil.
If you have "logic" (gate wired to source on the board) then you can use that to drive pin4 of the Electronic Ignition Module (N1).
Or you might be able to use the stepper output to drive pin4.
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You have a few choices:
If you have a channel on the VEMS that is populated with an IGBT you could connect directly to pin B on the coil.
If you have "logic" (gate wired to source on the board) then you can use that to drive pin4 of the Electronic Ignition Module (N1).
Or you might be able to use the stepper output to drive pin4.
this is what i have
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3158/picture3010.jpg)
how to wire logic gate (pin 36) to drive pin4 on electronic ignition module? could you edit some picture in Paint or sometihng.
igbt is onley on pin 35 ign00 but it dosen't work... no beep using dvm...
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I´m going to go out on a limb and say you are assembling yourself?
#1. Have you configured the board for VR sensor or Hall?
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yes, it was a kit.
sensor is configured as vr.
it reads 60rpm when cracking. it seems low. sensor is working it has 3 wires, shield ground and signal.
both ground and shield is connected to the ground. signal is conencted to vems.
vems v3.5 is configured to VR.
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3804/134264d1237594939164halx.jpg) (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=134264d1237594939164halx.jpg)
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/134264d1237594939164halx.jpg/1/w700.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img9/134264d1237594939164halx.jpg/1/)
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http://www.sendspace.com/file/lv6qja (http://www.sendspace.com/file/lv6qja)
new datalog
http://www.sendspace.com/file/uhh274 (http://www.sendspace.com/file/uhh274)
msq config file
and two probably not important ss
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1826/image5occ.th.jpg) (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image5occ.jpg)
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6898/image6m.th.jpg) (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image6m.jpg)
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(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9814/image7h.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image7h.jpg)
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/image7h.jpg/1/w298.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img206/image7h.jpg/1/)
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You can just take a coil from BMW E30 or any other car that doesnt have that stupid module and release yourself a trouble! I think a coil from 325i will do the work and it will work with ur current ignition setting in MT
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and constant from RPM calc is 2000 for 6cyl engine if i am right...
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i was checking injector output , with dvm and i get beep while crancking. it grounds, and seems ok.
but no beep on pin35 coil00.
2bmw : i have coil without ignition module connected. problem seems to be in vems, it doesn't connect coil trigger to ground.
so i was thinking to change ign output to pin36 and use coils 4pin ignition module, but i dont know what changes need to be done on vems board. (i have onley ign00 driver onboard).
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put another one into Pin36 and try that.
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don't have any spares...
changed rpm constant to 2000. got 173 rpm
also changed refrence table to
40
20
0
40
20
0
as suggested by fire. still no beep or reading from dwm from ign00 to ground.
;D
seems like dead ign driver ...
any suggestion how to use external bosch? onley connect it from pin 36 to pin4 ond coil driver without driver soldered to board? will it work? or do i need to bridge somethig?
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here is datlog, dump, and msq with latest changes after trying to start...
http://www.sendspace.com/file/n8mc78
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IGBT is
NH32AB
v3040p
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/IS%2FISL9V3040P3.pdf
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Then connect the ignition module to stepper outputs....there is info here on forum how to wire it up.
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http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_7&products_id=61
you mean idle stepper motor driver...
don't have it :)
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fire says that shiftcut and als settings were wrong so i chaneged it but no progress, no beep, il try later with coil as suggested... and spark plug
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it doesnt have to be that you dont have stepper chip,my board was also un assambled but i had stepper chip on it by default...
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i just looked at youre msq,this is 1.1.44? maybe you should try with 1.0.73 first...
Mine engine (bmw m20) doesnt start when set to Alternate (only when set to All banks) in Injector Setting>Fire banks while cranking (at the bottom of the settings),just a note...
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thx bmw.
got spark today, using diefferent coil DOH! fire says that my cheap dvm can't measure short as 2ms ingn output.... so new coil and voila! :)
but, i made a mistake.
when i got the spark, i put fuse for injectors and tryed to start the car. nothing.
didn't re check wiering, and after connecting and disconecting everything when trying to get the spark.
i didn't conected injector outputs 1 2 3 4 5 6. flyback was connected , and fuse to flyback / injectors was installed.
so i think i maybe blown some fets? ? ?
got no beep using DVM. later rechecked and i hear beep on chanels 3 4 5 6. on 1 and 2 nothing.
after trying to start every time this on vems gets "corrupted"
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9491/corr2.jpg) (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=corr2.jpg)
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/corr2.jpg/1/w311.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img9/corr2.jpg/1/)
insted 20 and 0
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/773/corr1z.jpg) (http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=corr1z.jpg)
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/corr1z.jpg/1/w351.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img17/corr1z.jpg/1/)
and here under #6 adn #7 idestead 64 and 128
after correcting valeues if i try to start the car, same thing happens. with random values... in the same place.
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I´ve had that happen, re upload the firmware until it´s fixed.
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Any version of fw recomended? 8)
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1.1.47v2 , so far best firmware for turbo cars. Must have if car has many torque and FWD.
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H table corrupt means you have injector staging enabled and miss cofigured, disable it. Also check conf switch in egt menu that it is zero (not used)
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CHECKED IT
turned off injector staging and conf switch egt. no data corruption now.
Thanks Sambas.
but car still wont start.
so i flashed vems to 1.1.47v2 and got some 3l v6 tables. edited ignition settings and nothing.
still no go...
does anyone know what this means
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d0" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d1" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d2" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d3" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d4" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d5" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "boost_channel_names" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "boost_conf_pwm" = "INVALID" not found.
and is this ok?
my reqfuel is 11.4ms
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5558/28300694.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=28300694.jpg)
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9494/43701312.th.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=43701312.jpg)
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for high-z injectors
pwm DC 100%
peak time 25.5ms
crank cold pw 18ms
crank hot pw 3ms
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injector open time anyone ?
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engine started ;D works for few seconds, then dies. it starts on 3-4 cyl.
what's next step?
how to tune it, at least get it to idle properly?
thx
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Check the calibration guides.
If you do not have any fundemental understanding of engines and fuel injection tuning in perticular you might want to think about purchasing a book on the subject.
#1. Would be to get the engine to warm temperatures and adjust the idle to be steady, Then you need to devise a warmup curve based on percentages, so next time you want to start it that you are able to do so and let it warm up. Dont try and drive anything before you know you can start it up at anytime as you don´t want to be miles from you house and it dies on you.
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car is working when i hold accelerator - tps at 3-4% won't idle without it.
1.1.47v2
here is datalog...
can anyone with expirience check it out?
http://www.sendspace.com/file/dwluhh (http://www.sendspace.com/file/dwluhh)
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is youre map sensor configured? you should see aroud 100kpa when engine is off...log shows 40...you need to set map sensor offset,open the throttle screw to 2-3% if you dont have and idle control configured and then set youre ignition and ve until the car idles fine...
when engine is idling you should see around 40kpa at idle depends how agressive youre cam is...
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MAP IS around 100kpa. when engine is off.
try today with idle valve. or as you suggested 3% tps.
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tried to play with vems yesterdey , with spark timning. end result car won't start anymore with backup settings or original ecu. spark plugs are dry but all black.
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9643/16412vtdcmarkfig1tsb009.jpg) (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16412vtdcmarkfig1tsb009.jpg)
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/16412vtdcmarkfig1tsb009.jpg/1/w645.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img19/16412vtdcmarkfig1tsb009.jpg/1/)
can anyone tell me TDC AFTER TRIGGER how many degrees is it according to this picture of alfa v6 60-2 wheel?
Current primary trigger settings are:
Falling
Multitooth
Disabled
Disabled
N-2
Normal
Number of teeth. 58
Trigger tooth 3
Next Trigger tooth 20
Crank min 2224
Angular width of tooth : 6
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COUNTED 61 tooth + 2 missing on picture.
hmmm. i'l count it on engine later today, and count wich tooth is at tdc mark.
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car started afrer spark plug cleanup ;D
i noticed induction i think. when i put wbo and injector fuses. ( all wires go together to engine bay) after turning key to 1st positon. (not trying to start the car). vems powerup. relay connects wbo2 injectors etc... and after few seconds i get interferance and got 300-500 rpm for few seconds and injectors start to pump fuel. (engine off)
RPM reading shows onley if i put wbo2 and injector fuses.
Anybody had the same problem? How to shield VR sensor wires? both grounds to sensor are properly connected.
Should i use coax or something?
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Use microphone cable, its designed for discrete signals in a noisy environment. The stuff used for live PA microphones is the best stuff to use.
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i found some coax used for securiti cameras, conected it to VR connector and no more ghost rpm signal.
also din't connect shield wire at all. on VR side.
can anyone tell me why autotune option i gray in ve table (tools/autotune)?
using 1.1.46 v2.
or i need to turn it on manually somehow?
also i'ts running rich at 0.8 lamda
map is around 70kpa at idle and goes down to around 40 at medium rpm's,
here is datalog. i did turn car off few times and cut fuel pump.
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Connect one end of the wire's shield to ground.
Autotune isn't supported in the newer releases, you should be tuning by hand now, as that the fun part!
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So i need to go to open loop tuning procedure...
Car is working nice onley it seems little rich.
Is 70kpa normal at 800 rpm. it goes to 30-40 at around 3000rpm. didn't force it to boost yet.
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It´s running?
Now you map.
If it´s rich then just fix that by tuning :o
As that is the whole game anyway
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yeah runs real nice almost like on original motronic.
So how to tune . i watch current lambda , say on 1000 rpm 70kpa and then adjust ve table % ?
i get around 35% ignition advance.
and how to watch pulse width?
req fuel is 11.4
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and i noticed that it on mlp07 screen i get afr reading but no O2% reading at all.
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You now need to familarize your self with the Megatune program.
Pulsewidth gauge is on top right hand corner when you turn on the program.
When tuning go into 3d VE tuning and you can see lambda, lambda target, pulsewidth and so on
be able to tune the fuel,
And yes you just adjust the VE numbers until lambda is good.
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here's something i found. for future alfa tuners :)
(http://www.vems.hu/files/TomPhillips/trigger-wheel.png)
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In megatune in lower right corner i get occasinal red ??missfire?? blinking. but car seems to work ok.
What this means?
-
dissregard that,
I have not seen that work, even under missfire when accelarating at high rpm and load.
-
finnaly found out that i can increas values in 3d table . : )) until now i shifted main megatune screen and tables .. better late than never ;D
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Where is the best place to mount EGT probe, is it ok to mount it few inches after turbo, near to lambda probe ?
-
Keep it before turbo ,
Best is close to the assumed leanest cylinder.
-
so what would be leanest cyl on v6 alfa?
I hope that it's #4-5 or 6 ;D
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free at last, sunday, tryed to tune it. to get to tareget lambda, idle rises and lowers, the problem is that when i push throttle faster lambda jumps tp 1.2 or so and i get miss fire. also when i slowley push pedal up to 3000 rpm turbo starts to kick in getting close to zero and into boost) and then it stops. with the strange sound :) i dont know how to explain.
Can anyone who has magalog viewer check it out and maybe sort out tables / acl. enrichment? I'm scared that i dont melt the engine. colant gets high really fast.
edit : ego correction was turned off.
using 1. 1 47 v2
download here: http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/sakrkorh/vems/firmware_1.1.47_ext_v2.zip (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/sakrkorh/vems/firmware_1.1.47_ext_v2.zip)
and here is my datalog and generated msq /tables
download: http://www.sendspace.com/file/e37nwd (http://www.sendspace.com/file/e37nwd)
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Your ovefuelling like mad to the point of missfire.,
You need to map this to make it work right,
can you do mapping yourself? Do you understand the variables and what to do?
If not then seeking the assistance of a professional is a good move or get some books on the subject and read up.
Tune the VE table first then worry about the throttle accelaration enrichment.
-
decided to calibrate wbo2 and mount. i never finished calibration steps that included using 100 ohm resistors.
so i have quick question , when connecting 100ohm resistors between pin's do need to have wbo2 plugged or unplugged to vems?
-
disconect WBO2.
Did you turn on wbo2(Manmde02) and wait for 1-2min?
-
2mwfire: didnt tryed it with resistors. but with onley wbo2 connected it heats...
got -0.17v on pump zero pw calibration is this OK ?
-
got 4.01v between gnd and pump -( pin5)
and 0.45v between pump- (pin5) and nerst (pin1)
that seems to be acceptable?!
o2 reading is 20.4 to 20.8 with wbo2 in clean exhaust (didn't started engine today)
can anyone confirm this valueas are ok?
-
anyoone? ;D
-
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FPhatBob%2FUserGuide
Go to "Calibrating the WB02 controller circuit" its all there :)
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didn't touched vems for a month ;D
alfa is back on motronic, dont want to play with boost without EGT probe.
First need to find a good place to mount it.
Here ar cyl 4-5-6 with colored dots, so i need some advice where to drill.
how deep tip of the probe need to be in exhaust?
thx.
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8013/egt002.th.jpg) (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/egt002.jpg/)
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Personally I would got further down the manifold to where the three pipes join.
-
Personally I would got further down the manifold to where the three pipes join.
i can do it that way. at that point how high egt can be (safety limit)? 850 C?
-
Personally I would got further down the manifold to where the three pipes join.
i can do it that way. at that point how high egt can be (safety limit)? 850 C?
950C
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is it possible to slightly bent thicker egt probe from vems shop?
around 45 degrees at middle?
-
I don´t think it will handle 45° , I have managed about 25-30° in the middle to clear a downpipe.
-
Do i need to solder something on v3.5 board to use tacho safe ?
Is is possible to use ign7 with igbt installed or just use p259?
-
It's always a good idea to use an IGBT to dirve something if you have one available, they can handle big loads and are robust - the P259 is good for 350mA only.
Rob
-
The P259 doesn't handle strong solenoids well either, the flyback voltage may break it (add extra diode like 1N4007 from rescue kit).
For tacho you can use a free stepper output (S259 chip).
-
Thanks
-
Does anyone knows where to buy case for green lcd? like one found in vems shop?
Name of the model or something?
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(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8638/ecconnectorsout.png) (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/ecconnectorsout.png/) (http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/ecconnectorsout.png/1/w644.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img163/ecconnectorsout.png/1/)
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5555/ecconnectorsout36.png) (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/ecconnectorsout36.png/) (http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/ecconnectorsout36.png/1/w644.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img684/ecconnectorsout36.png/1/)
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I'm owner of v3.5 so i used v3.3 drawing ... now on 3.6 i see wheel input connection.. is this internaly connected to "keyboard connector" ?
It seems like knock #2 is gone... ::)
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which megatune version is need to opet this old 2006 .msq?
[url]http://www.vems.hu/files/sly/megasquirt200507080255.msq[/url
Im intrested in trigger setting values...
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open it in notepad and it will tell you in the first lines.
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tried, it's just garbage "#MegaTune 2 "
here is part config, just copy/paste from vems web, tryed hex to ascii but it didn't work... ;D ???
config subpage for MembersPage/KeithHargrove/AlfaMilano .
Hello>
primep=96
primep_temp_scaling=A0
cwl=2E
cwh=0F
cranking_thres=03
awev=14
awev_temp_scaling=A0
awec=FF
warmup_clt_range[0]=00
warmup_clt_range[1]=09
warmup_clt_range[2]=1D
warmup_clt_range[3]=31
warmup_clt_range[4]=50
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That msq file is corrupted.
-
is there a way to convert values to numbers
primep=96
primep_temp_scaling=A0
96= ??
A0= ??
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basicly i just want to take a look ak trigger settings wheel count triger tooth tdc...
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FKeithHargrove%2FAlfaMilano%2FConFig (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FKeithHargrove%2FAlfaMilano%2FConFig)
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is there a way to convert values to numbers
primep=96
primep_temp_scaling=A0
96= ??
A0= ??
It´s HEX and you can use your windows calculator.
First set it to scientific
Then select HEX
the input the value, then select DEC again and it will be converted into decimal. Or you can use google probably.
95 = 150
A0 = 160
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Thanks.
Another question.
Can i run vag active cops with igbt's or i have to remove them, (i dont have camsync)
I currently have stock dizzy, was planning to use wasted sparr 3x2 coil, but someone suggested to use cops.
(cheaper & easy to find).
For 6 active cop's without camsync 3 ignition channels are used ? same as wasted spark?
-
Also it it possible to use second wbo heater FET to drive something like iac or boost control?
Or it's onley used for second wbo2?
Thx.
-
Thanks.
Another question.
Can i run vag active cops with igbt's or i have to remove them, (i dont have camsync)
I currently have stock dizzy, was planning to use wasted sparr 3x2 coil, but someone suggested to use cops.
(cheaper & easy to find).
For 6 active cop's without camsync 3 ignition channels are used ? same as wasted spark?
Vauxhall v6 coil pack new is going to be the cheapest solution and simplest
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-VECTRA-V6-IGNITION-COIL-PACK-OVAL-PLUG_W0QQitemZ300383682405QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item45f0433f65
This works for 500hp+
you would have to remove the IGBT´s for active coils. And you´d have to use 6 channels to run COP´s..
So I suggest you get that coil and save yourself removing the igbt´s and save 3 channels.
-
So it's not possible to run 6 active cops with 3 ign channels wasted spark :-\
It ain't problem to remove igbt's.
Good price for vauxhall coil, im not sure it will fit on alfa cables, alfa has 4mm inner dimension plug, 7mm outer rubber seal. Is it same as vauxhall?
-
I don´t know but you could probably get some vauxhall HT leads as well.
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Running two coils from one IGBT you are doubling the current and the IGBT may not be big enough. Then there is the transient voltage, the IGBT can cope with up to around 450v transient but with two coils generating 400v the actual voltage may be more than the IGBT can carry, i am not sure. However, I was TOLD by one of the developers that you SHOULD NOT double up the coils on on IGBT.
There is provision for 8 IGTBs, and you would need 6. How many other things you are driving need an IGBT
Also, personaly I would leave the IGBTs onboard and use those to drive the drivers built into the coils thus protecting the driver chips in the ECU. Its getting a bit long winded with the processor driving the driver chip driving the IGBT, driving the driver in the coil :D
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Yes, but they are active coils, if i have six IGBT's and connect them to six active cops would igbt fry them :) ?
Just courious.
I have idle valve and boost selenoid on two remainig injector channels.
And planning to run TACHO on IGBT so if i run 6 cops, still one igbt channel is empty. Maybe i could use it for fuel pump relay just to get away from easy burning p259's.
Is this possible, to run tacho from ign channel 07 wire directly to tach without pullup to 12v messing around? And ign06 to fuel pump relay.
I'l try to find vauhall/opel to check if my cables fit to their coil...
Maybe mwfire coul help with this :) 4mm inner dimension?
???
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The igbt´s don´t output the right signals for active coils.
-
Thx.
Is it ok tu use igbt for fuel pump relay or tacho directly with no extra pullups? If i understood Rob, it is. .. tacho...
and is it possible tu use second wbo2 fet to drive fuel pump etc ... just to fill that extra space on vems board while it's out on the desk :) ?
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Yes you can use an IGBT to control a relay - the relay is powered by the battery and goes to earth via an IGBT, FET or p259.
-
tacho can go directly to igbt?
-
tacho can go directly to igbt?
Some do, otherwise use a free stepper output (EC18 connector, S259-x outputs).
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I bought case from vems webshop recently, until now vems was in open case with small heatsink on igbt (single igbt), after few tests i didn't noticed it gets hot, so i wondered if i could use this one, in my new configuration with 3 igbts? and 3x2 coilpack
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=400064914941 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=400064914941)
there is no way i could clamp it to the case as my components are mounted on top of the board.
I could mount small pc fan on the backside on vems endplate...
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Expert needed...
Slyalfa from alfabb forum gave me his .msq , he's also running alfa v6 on vems for at least 3 years.
I made primary trigger settings as suggested in this thread, but never checked with timing light. ( car still waiting for paint job, not driving it) :D
On the left are mine trigger sett. on the RIGHT are slyalfa (using it for 3 years) 60-2 wheel.
So what to change on my trigger settings, im lost here is my angular width of tooth wrong ? trigger tooth? cranck min period? missing type. Mine (90deg) tdc is not verified...
(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/8404/alfav6dejo.jpg) (http://img695.imageshack.us/i/alfav6dejo.jpg/)
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If he has the exact same engine then I´d start with his and test with a timing light.
-
Il'l try. But what about edge : falling/rising, does it matter? You said on first page of this thread to use falling.. And he uses rising? Does this reflects to trigger tooth #
-
What firmware version is the running engine using?
Rising edge is predominantly used for VR sensors and falling edge is predominantly used for Hall sensors
trigger before TDC value depends on the physical location of the sensor in relation to the missing tooth when the engine is at TDC. If the trigger is a non standard set up, it could be anything and is why you need to check it with a timing light.
Trigger tooth is the tooth that Vems uses as its refference. it can be any tooth you wish but it is normaly set to 1
Crank Min Period is calculated as 60/ (red line RPM +1000)/Number of engine events * 2
the values in filtering don't do anything since they have been disabled at the top
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bot engines have VR
he uses 1.0.73Final and selected rising , daily driver
im on 1.1.47v2 and selected falling as gunni suggested, see thread page 1. few starts in garage :)
-
Trigger set upwill be different between these two setups
If when you are in Megatune with 1.1.47 press f1, this will bring up a help window and give you some helpfull information to configure the anrgular width of teeth
Dont forget to set up the trigger refference tabe in the advanced menue
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selected falling as gunni suggested, see thread page 1. few starts in garage :)
Thats great, but the official Vems view on this is that rising is for VR and falling is for Hall.
-
selected falling as gunni suggested, see thread page 1. few starts in garage :)
Thats great, but the official Vems view on this is that rising is for VR and falling is for Hall.
f1 just says :
Angular width of tooth
So for a 60-2 the toothwidth is 360/60=6 deg
so mine 6deg angular would be ok.
my refrence tooth table is 40 20 0 40 20 0
-
VR sensors are mostly falling from what I can see.
At least that is the better edge to select.
-
VR sensors are mostly falling from what I can see.
At least that is the better edge to select.
yes but vems working with the lm chip signal which is rising
-
does anyone know what's tdc after trigger value in this config, i can't find it anywhere :-[
trigger tooth is 7
another tooth 20
angular width 6
tooth width 2
tooth 58.
same as working sly config except i can't find tdc after value... and rising or falling value ..
Hello>
primep=96
primep_temp_scaling=A0
cwl=2E
cwh=0F
cranking_thres=03
awev=14
awev_temp_scaling=A0
awec=FF
warmup_clt_range[0]=00
warmup_clt_range[1]=09
warmup_clt_range[2]=1D
warmup_clt_range[3]=31
warmup_clt_range[4]=50
warmup_clt_range[5]=64
warmup_clt_range[6]=78
warmup_clt_range[7]=8C
warmup_clt_range[8]=AA
warmup_clt_range[9]=C8
warmup_clt[0]=73
warmup_clt[1]=6E
warmup_clt[2]=6E
warmup_clt[3]=69
warmup_clt[4]=67
warmup_clt[5]=66
warmup_clt[6]=64
warmup_clt[7]=64
warmup_clt[8]=64
warmup_clt[9]=64
warmup_rpm_scale=DE
req_fuel=5A
divider=01
alternate=15
injopen=00
battfac=10
kpafac=7E
kpaoffs=72
injocfuel=2E
injrampup_battfac=FF
injpwm=FF
injpwmt=FF
injpwm6=FF
rpmk[0]=07
rpmk[1]=D0
tpsdot_kpadot_conf=01
tpsdotrate[0]=05
tpsdotrate[1]=14
tpsdotrate[2]=28
tpsdotrate[3]=4D
tpsaq[0]=04
tpsaq[1]=08
tpsaq[2]=0C
tpsaq[3]=10
als_cut_mintps=03
tpsasync=0A
acmult=64
tpsacold=00
launch_enrich=64
launch_retard=0A
overrun_fuelcut=0F
overrun_fuelresume=0E
rev_limit=3C
airden_ignore=62
config11=51
config12=30
config13=02
batt_cal=A3
fastidle=80
als_max_cut=24
dbaro=0C
tps_low=11
tps_high=DC
fan_temp=E1
fan_hyst=09
fan_channel=56
iac_step_seq=C9
iac_conf=08
iac_max_steps=F0
iac_tps_thres=06
iac_cold_idle_temp=A0
iac_warm_idle_temp=D0
iac_cold_rpm=74
iac_warm_rpm=67
iac_cold_start_pos=A0
iac_warm_start_pos=60
iac_afterstart_rpm=00
iac_afterstart_duration=00
iac_speed=00
iac_kp=25
iac_ki=10
iac_kd=30
launch_rpm=36
iac_integral_limit_dec=05
iac_integral_limit_inc=38
iac_integral_deadband=0A
iac_deadband=05
als_cut_maxtps=00
iac_overclose_interval=05
iac_ref_pos[0]=60
iac_ref_pos[1]=5C
iac_ref_pos[2]=58
iac_ref_pos[3]=50
iac_ref_pos[4]=4C
iac_ref_pos[5]=48
iac_ref_pos[6]=3d
iac_ref_pos[7]=35
iac_ref_pos[8]=31
iac_ref_pos[9]=2E
iac_sol_channel=70
iac_ign_slope=20
softrpm_range=50
iac_ign_advance_limit=10
iac_ign_retard_limit=18
iac_ign_threshold=08
ego_conf=06
ego_lag=0C
ego_coolant=00
ego_maxtps=00
ego_maxmap=6E
ego_minrpm=04
ego_maxrpm=FF
ego_warmup=15
ego_lean_limit=80
ego_rich_limit=80
ego_pid_kp=28
als_enrich=00
ego_delta=05
ego_target=19
ego_pid_window=FF
wbo2_warmup_ramp=9C
als_react_tps=FF
wbo2_abs_limit=E4
wbo2_limit_maxt=A0
wbo2_fallback=60
wbo2_retry_t=06
wbo2_edgetime_corr=BA
wbo2_edgetime_min=50
wbo2_ri_target=96
wbo2_nernstdc_target=8D
wbo2_pump_pw_zero=64
wbo2_calibration=C8
wbo2_heater_pid_kp=45
wbo2_heater_pid_ki=11
wbo2_heater_pid_kd=1A
wbo2_heater_pid_ilimit=81
wbo2_pump_pid_kp=28
wbo2_pump_pid_ki=60
wbo2_pump_pid_kd=00
wbo2_pump_pid_ilimit=28
wbo2_ri_confidence_scale=80
knock_conf=00
knock_sampling_window=FF
knock1_frequency=29
knock1_gain=FF
knock1_integrator=FF
knock2_frequency=29
knock2_gain=FF
knock2_integrator=FF
knock_threshold=FF
knock_noise_scale=FF
knock_max_retard=FF
knock_default_retard=00
knock_retard_step=FF
knock_retard_delay=FF
knock_advance_step=FF
knock_advance_delay=FF
knock_minrpm=64
knock_maxrpm=64
ve_learn_coolant=90
ve_learn_max_power=FF
ve_learn_rpm_scale=FF
ve_learn_kpa_scale=FF
ve_learn_ego_scale=FF
ve_learn_min_weight=01
ve_learn_speed=FF
ve_learn_limit=21
ve_learn_conf=02
lcd_c0=FE
lcd_delay=FF
lcd_backlight=FF
kpa_conf=21
ign_balance=00
als_retard_mintps=FF
als_retard_maxtps=FF
lcd_default_view=00
primary_trigger=01
secondary_trigger=02
tooth_wheel=3A
trigger_tooth=07
another_trigger_tooth=14
crank_minper=50
tooth_wheel_twidth1=02
tooth_wheel_twidth2=06
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=3C
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=50
reset_engphase_after=6E
ign_tdcdelay=58
ign_dwell14=1C
ign_dwell6=1E
ign_crank_advance=14
ign_out=72
ignchmax=05
engine_off_delay=08
pump_on_mintime=13
fuelpump_channel=36
inj_stage2_rate=FF
inj_stage2_start_tps=FF
inj_stage2_start_map=FF
als_deact_rpm=FF
als_deact_time=00
als_deact_egt=00
als_retard=00
als_rev_limit=64
misc1out_minrpm=FF
misc1out_maxrpm=FF
misc1out_mintps=FF
misc1out_maxtps=FF
misc1out_minmap=FF
misc1out_maxmap=FF
misc1out_channel=FF
misc2out_minrpm=FF
misc2out_maxrpm=FF
misc2out_mintps=FF
misc2out_maxtps=FF
misc2out_minmap=FF
misc2out_maxmap=FF
misc2out_channel=FF
act_wot_rpm=FF
act_wot_channel=36
act_rpm_rpm=FF
act_rpm_channel=FF
egt1_cal=4A
als_tks_channel=0F
boost_conf=00
boost_targetoffs=00
boost_minpressure=FF
boost_pid_kp=20
boost_pid_ki=80
boost_pid_kd=01
boost_pid_ilimit=FF
boost_channel=FF
water_pump_temp=00
hybrid_rpm_a=00
hybrid_rpm_m=00
water_pump_hyst=00
water_pump_channel=FF
toothrel_normal=B5
toothrel_missing=76
fuelcut_min_kpa=0A
fuelcut_max_kpa=FF
tach_channel=46
tach_div=01
shiftcut_conf=ED
shiftcut_channel=FF
shiftcut_time=FF
softrpm_rpm=3C
-
ign_tdcdelay=58
x58 is quarter degrees in hexa decimal = (16x5+8) / 4 = 88 / 4 = 22.0 degrees
-
ign_tdcdelay=58
x58 is quarter degrees in hexa decimal = (16x5+8) / 4 = 88 / 4 = 22.0 degrees
ok now we have two diefferent configs for same engine one has 44 deg tdc, another 22, or 88?
I'l just order timing gun from ebay just to be sure.
Is there some good tutorail for timing gun?
I have tdc mark on flywheel, then i make mark on pully and engine block and cranck engine and change tdc value until two marks i made on pulley and block matches?
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6922/iac.jpg) (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/iac.jpg/)
also for iac bosch do i use 30v or 18v diode from vems shop?
Plan is to put diode beteen + and - in ev1 connector.
Thanks everbody.
-
(http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5122/imagendi.th.jpg) (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/imagendi.jpg/)
Assambled with all extra's :)
-
also for iac bosch do i use 30v or 18v diode from vems shop?
Plan is to put diode beteen + and - in ev1 connector.
Diode 1N2007 is fine
Thanks everbody.
-
just found two 1n4007 in recue kit ;D
suppose it will do.
Does anyone knows where to buy wire insulation for harness online? Found onley shrink tube on ebay...
-
I have tdc mark on flywheel, then i make mark on pully and engine block and cranck engine and change tdc value until two marks i made on pulley and block matches?
That's the idea.
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I have tdc mark on flywheel, then i make mark on pully and engine block and cranck engine and change tdc value until two marks i made on pulley and block matches?
That's the idea.
Make sure you configure the cranking advance to zero first, and then back to what it was, after you are done
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(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/1756/imagec.jpg) (http://img713.imageshack.us/i/imagec.jpg/)
Just got these 6x siemens deka 870cc/min @ 3bar (=300kPa = 43.5 psi), i measured them and it's 12ohm.
They are ev1, i did some googling before purchasing "fake injectors" etc, didn't found any complaints.
But is there any chance these are fake? Anyone heard or seen something about fake deka's?
btw is there any way to make simple injector trigger to test them one by one (got spare fuel rail and pump)
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i got that injectors and no problems. At idle i can adjuste lambda with 0.02 resolution.
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Thx.
btw do you know which fuel pump to buy, genuine offcourse on ebay? :)
btw2; znaš možda gdje kupiti izolaciju tj bužir u koji bi strpao sve žice pošto sve na novo povlačim da ljepo izgleda..
gledao sam onu šta se pali upaljačem ili onu tkaninu šta se omata oko žica ali najradije bi onu gumu kao šta je na žicama na wbo2 sondi... samo u raznim debljinama..
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Does anyone knows where to buy case for green lcd from vems shop, it's not listed as seperate iten..
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spare wbo2 fet arrived today... i suppose it's impossble to use it to control something else? didnt see output channel in vemstune...
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Sorry, you can't use the second WBO2 FET for anything.
A case for the green LCD ? They are only pre-built with a case. Not sure how the PCB would fit.
Just make your own, can't be too hard.
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It would be nice to have option in webshop to buy just the case seperatly.
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Sorry, you can't use the second WBO2 FET for anything.
A case for the green LCD ? They are only pre-built with a case. Not sure how the PCB would fit.
Just make your own, can't be too hard.
if i remember right, second WBO2 can be used in newer firmware, it's spec fet.
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Careful with WBO2 FETs as there is no flyback
If second WBO2 channel is SPECFET, which channel? SPECFET 5 and 6 are reserved for DPAK
Are we not going to see monitoring only second WBO2 in 1.1.xx firmware?
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Il just make it simple then & won't use it ;)
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Careful with WBO2 FETs as there is no flyback
If second WBO2 channel is SPECFET, which channel? SPECFET 5 and 6 are reserved for DPAK
Are we not going to see monitoring only second WBO2 in 1.1.xx firmware?
changelog:
* HEATER2 could be used as user defined, it is SPECFET1.
i didn't try that
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You have been able to use the SPECFET for a long time, sure - but you have to solder a wire to a free pin on the Econoseal connectors to use it, and that's not a standard feature unless you know what you're doing.
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Problems with MAP.
Vems is on the desk, it's now installed in original box and small hose gose from onboard map 250kpa to brass nipple. I have connected silicon hose, and tried to make some vacuum myself, just to see if anything leaks, but sensor is stuck at 98.3 kpa and dosent move, onley when i take vems fuse out , make a vacuum and insert fuse back it say 77kpa or so.
Is this normal?
I guess it will refresh itself automaticly on the fly when car is running ?
Another question.
1.1.47v2 is now flashed. When i set evereything primary trigger inj. etc. save config, and then when i flash latest .67 firmware will my old setting work or TDC spot will move and il need to tune it again with strobe gun? ( i was reading before that someone had that problem when moving from very old fw to latest)
Thanks!
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Just remembered i wanted to ask about ps/2, mine is v3.5 basicly same as v3.3 and ps2 connecor is mounted and working
What for ps2 can be used? TC? Car has ABS.
And what's with the v3.6 genboard and non ps2 / speed sensor? When i flash my old i need to use ps/2 fw correct?
THx
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Problems with MAP.
Vems is on the desk, it's now installed in original box and small hose gose from onboard map 250kpa to brass nipple. I have connected silicon hose, and tried to make some vacuum myself, just to see if anything leaks, but sensor is stuck at 98.3 kpa and dosent move, onley when i take vems fuse out , make a vacuum and insert fuse back it say 77kpa or so.
Is this normal?
I guess it will refresh itself automaticly on the fly when car is running ?
Another question.
1.1.47v2 is now flashed. When i set evereything primary trigger inj. etc. save config, and then when i flash latest .67 firmware will my old setting work or TDC spot will move and il need to tune it again with strobe gun? ( i was reading before that someone had that problem when moving from very old fw to latest)
Thanks!
normal for 1.1.47 firmware becouse of map filter(he wait for spark event to sample). Disabled it and you will see map change.
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and whatabout ps/2 ? Any suggestions ? To steal signal from abs for boost control or something?
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Just saw new item in shop http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/wheelspeed-cable-p-143.html?osCsid=6a66083bd8833fc6be2fe5c71d1748d6 (http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/wheelspeed-cable-p-143.html?osCsid=6a66083bd8833fc6be2fe5c71d1748d6)
"ps2 wheelspeed cable"
So if i flash it with non ps2 fw it can be used for boost apparently.
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You have been able to use the SPECFET for a long time, sure - but you have to solder a wire to a free pin on the Econoseal connectors to use it, and that's not a standard feature unless you know what you're doing.
I have both DPAK populated, and I use those to drive my shift lights, although I found that for some reason the WOT output in 1.1.47 does not function. I am not sure if I missed any other config, but when set for 7500rpm and throttle is at 100%, it does nothing. Change to a Misc output configured on the same channel and it works. WOT does not function correctly. Not tried any later firmwares yet.
Mattias, are you saying that support for the SPECFET channels has been dropped, as this will surely cause me concern ???
(http://freespace.virgin.net/colin.milne/DSCF2926.JPG)
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http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGergelyLezsak%2FAssemblyThreePointFive (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGergelyLezsak%2FAssemblyThreePointFive)
Found nice assambly thread...
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Mattias, are you saying that support for the SPECFET channels has been dropped, as this will surely cause me concern ???
I wouldn't know unless I asked the firmware team about it. Since the second SPECFET is not documented to be wired to Econoseal pin in a factory built box I've never used it.
Btw.. your box does NOT look in any way to be built in Budapest unless you specifically asked for it.
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Nope, my box is a self build ;D and I have access to all inputs and outputs including the speed sensor on the main connectors. The loom uses the normal black connector and a Rover red loom connector which is a different gender. This way I cannot plug the power connector into the delicate 'input' connector :D
It solved the problem of getting the inputs and outputs in and out with out the mess :D and It wouldnt take much to re configure the board layout at the design stage to allow the two connectors to sit propperly side by side. As it is I have 12 pins to one side of the normal 18 and 6 to the other. The onboard wiring for Knock, MCP3208, P259, speed sensor and serial port all go directly to the cut down pins inside the box with some spare.
All I want now is the second WBO2 for monitoring only :D
Sorry for the thread hijack
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Sprocket could you help me on wiering speed sensor?
After inserting zenner and resistor for protection, whats next, is onley one wire needed for wheelspeed? If so witch one?
I suppose thet that wire can go on free pin on ec18?
Is this then something dieffrent than new ps2-wheelspeed cable from vemshop?
Or should i just buy that cable and plug it ps2 port on vems if it's someting dieffrent?
"Inside the main element is a BC817 with 18k base pullup to 5V (and input to base 1k protection resistor). The swithcing threshold is about 275mV (so VR signal minimum amplitude is 300mV to safely trigger - so all VR sensors we have seen output high enough voltage). Pulling input signal to ground also triggers it. "
(http://www.vems.hu/files/GergelyLezsak/v35pics/16_PS2zener.jpg)
(http://www.vems.hu/files/GergelyLezsak/v35pics/17_PS2CLKpullup.jpg)
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put 10nF condensator between gnd and avr pin for speed sensor.
Remove lot of noise.
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(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5055/imagelrl.th.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/imagelrl.jpg/)
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8373/imagexl.th.jpg) (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/imagexl.jpg/)
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2610/imagepn.th.jpg) (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/imagepn.jpg/)
Just got back from the store., got
4.7kohm resistor
1n0 K 400v BC cap is that ok?
and 5,1 zener
now how to connect that to get wheelspeed?
Unfortunatly yesterday i hot-glued that white plastic plug to ps/2 pins...
Im affraid not to rip traces of pcb it i pull white ps2 socket.. so il'l just solder on the bottom side.
I could easily add that zenner and 4.7 pullup, but not really sure where to go with 10nf cap in that case.
& is anything else need to do to get same thing that ps/2 whellspeed cable does npn?
2_Sprocket? witch wire is used for wheelspeed input i suppose ps2-clk so i can wire that pin form ps2 connector to free ec18 pin8?
Sorry for all that questions but it's snowing for days and i'm just getting bored.
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Here are picuture of my v.3.5 genboard, with some common mods.
Note that i have two knocks and it's wired directly to ec 18 :-X
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2454/003dr.th.jpg) (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/003dr.jpg/)
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7007/002ypw.th.jpg) (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/002ypw.jpg/)
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(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1001/imagenuc.jpg)
By topgearv6 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/topgearv6) at 2010-02-11
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3120/imageci.jpg)
By topgearv6 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/topgearv6) at 2010-02-11
Well didn't wanted to solder it directly on the pcb in case i'l need something else for wheelspeed.
Until someone gives me some advice...
And it's really easy to remove :)
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any info?
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I am using speed sensor hardware for a 12v hall sensor. The speed sensor hardware is different for a VR sensor
http://195.159.109.134/vemsuk/forum/index.php/topic,1024.0.html
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Hy, my car has "speedo sender" on tranny. it has two pins.
Managed to get some info on alfabb forum: "that the output of the speedometer sensor is a square wave of approx. 8V amplitude (I think it was), about 50% duty cycle, with the frequency picking up to several hundred hertz at 'high' speeds.
But it might be better to tap abs wheel sensor also two wire. It's 1988 bosch abs system similiar to bmw e30 or vauxhall...
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two wire are normaly VR and three wire are Hall effect.
VR is not square wave, Hall effect is
Just thought, the Transmission sensor could be optical? Im not sure how they differ in the way they work from Hall effect.
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it's mechanical sensor i belive it spins inside, just found out that it uses gearbox as ground so it might be hall...
I'd rather tap one wheel for speed. as it would be more compatibile with other cars, that two wire abs sensor would be VR?
So i need some tips about that zener and pullup and how to connect it to abs wheel sensor...
Thx.
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Hy, my car has "speedo sender" on tranny. it has two pins.
Managed to get some info on alfabb forum: "that the output of the speedometer sensor is a square wave of approx. 8V amplitude (I think it was), about 50% duty cycle, with the frequency picking up to several hundred hertz at 'high' speeds.
But it might be better to tap abs wheel sensor also two wire. It's 1988 bosch abs system similiar to bmw e30 or vauxhall...
your sensor acts like hall from gearbox. On abs are vr sensor.
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Ok, i suppose i have it on abs vr?
Could you help me with connection info details?
Take a look on last few pictures i posted.
i connected 4.7 kohm resisotor between +5v and ps2-clk pin (1 and 4)
and 5.1v zenner between GND and ps2 clk (pin 2 and 4)
Data pin 3 is free.
Everything is on removable plug. Should i remove something and add that 10nf between pins???
And also wich pins goes to abs VR?
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2610/imagepn.jpg)
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3120/imageci.jpg)
By topgearv6 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/topgearv6) at 2010-02-11
By topgearv6 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/topgearv6) at 2010-02-11
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bump ;D
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add 10nF, recommended.
If you use VR sensor, you will need decoder with LM1815 chip.
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add 10nF, recommended.
If you use VR sensor, you will need decoder with LM1815 chip.
between pin 2 and 4 (where zenner is)
I don't understand how then cable from shop would work on vr (does not have lm1815 inside.. )
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vems is on the desk right now it has onley internal map connected and tps is rising slowley by itself as allways
i have been tweaking some settings and now i noticed that PULSEWIDTH is jumping to 30.6msec every second or so.
Is this normal, is something bad (too high PW ) is going to happen when i put it in the car ??? ;D
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1645/56725375.png) (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/56725375.png/)
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all normal. at -40deg car need lots of fuel for cranking.
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thanks, that was quick.
On my old .msq PW stands still at 18.6 ms ?
Does anyone have some links where h[0] and h[1] tables are explayned
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(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9514/imageys.th.jpg) (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/imageys.jpg/)
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3516/imagegbj.th.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/imagegbj.jpg/)
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/945/imageqs.th.jpg) (http://img35.imageshack.us/i/imageqs.jpg/)
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1808/imageias.th.jpg) (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/imageias.jpg/)
-primary trigger vr 60-2 stock alfa
-alfa v6 fire order: 1,4,2,5,3,6
- using stock dizzy on last IGBT
- injectors are connected on first six outputs
Can someone re-check these "h" tables?
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If i use six active coils in wasted spark (driven by three stepper outputs). How to connect them wich ones goes in pair Fire order for this v6 is 1-4-2-5-3-6 :-X
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1-4-2-5-3-6
1&5
4&3
2&6
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(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2859/fuelchannel.png) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/fuelchannel.png/)
If fuel pump relay (gnd) is connected to igbt-ignition channel7, do i use 7 or i7 ?? What's the diefference?
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only 7, not inverted
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Thanks, it works.
Just adjusted TDC with timing light and with these settings it is spot-on.
Is this correct cranck min period for v6?
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7671/img0433hn.jpg) (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/img0433hn.jpg/)
And i see that coolant temp and iat are +- 2 degrees off, if i correct it manually (ice and boiling water) and then upgrade to 1.1.70 is there a way to import whole config from .msq or just VE / spark tables?
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http://hotfile.com/dl/38412741/9de2c6c/MEGATUNE.rar.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/38412741/9de2c6c/MEGATUNE.rar.html)
Could someone please take a look at logs. Here is rar with megatune 1.1.47v2 my .msq and logs
Car dies after few seconds (i think after afterstart period) or when i touch throttle.
throttle is opened with screw at 2%, idle valve disabled.
When map is disconneced it works forever (forgot to connect it first time) :D
When using megalogviewer and opening vems msq and log i forgot wich lambda probe to choose innovative?
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Make sure your req-fuel value is calculated correctly. Increase the values in the VE table by 10% to begin with, you probably need more than that in the end. If your req-fuel was not correct, begin with making that adjustment. If you needed to increase req-fuel you might be ok already with that change, if you need to lower it then you really need to raise the VE table values.
It sounds plausible since it runs better with no MAP hose. When the ECU thinks there is atmospheric pressure it will double the fuel compared to the vacuum you normally pull at idle (around 50 kPa it seems).
You can kick-start the lambda readings using a terminal (Manmde02bye) and wait for it to warm up so that you get actual live lambda readings of the cold start. Makes tuning this a lot easier since you will know where you are fuel wise. You should run 0.8-0.9 lambda on cold start depending on th engine and for it to run smoothly.
Choosing Innovate to interpret O2 values in MLV is only for MegaSquirt users.
With VEMS you just choose the the raw lambda + lambdaTarget variables.
I'm not sure what you are asking.
From what I know the crank min period only matters with coil type triggers, not multi-tooth.
Just set it to 0. It should be greyed out but isn't.
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Thanks for info.
WBO was removed becouse i didnt wanted to overfuel it/burn it in case of bad ve table...
I was using VE and SPARK exported maps from a guy that runs megasquirt on the same type of car, he says it's tuned on dyno. So strange it dosen't work. Maybe there is some other settings involved (other than req_fuel)
I got injector opet time @13.2v = 0
Is this "ok" ?
Il try your advice tomarrow and correct ve map.
Any tips on acc enrichment?
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Your injector settings look absolutely fine. The rampup value can be tuned to compensate injector characteristics, leave the open time = 0.
Acc enrichment should be 0.2-0.3 secs at most, yours is 1.0 sec which is far too long. Always make sure you're not being fooled by AE when tuning.
Only timing maps are easy to transfer and it's the only really valuable info you can use from that other guys megasquirt file. Fuel calculations are similar, but can not be transferred easily.
Your timing map looks really odd.. no matter how "tuned on a dyno" it is, my experience tells me there is too little advance at cruising load sites as well as too much timing at low rpm with high load.
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(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6564/lambdah.png) (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/lambdah.png/)
I just connected wbo2 sensor, everything is double checked, wbo2 is not in exhaust, it sits on intake plenum, as i just wanted to make sure heater is working. And it works. when engine is off , i turn heater via terminal and after 60sec i get this reading 102 lambda... is there something wrong will it be ok when its reads actual mixture from exhaust.
I want to just monitor afr. But i also noticed that injector pulsewith is on massive 222 msec.
how to turn off that lambda correnctio so i dosent affect inj. pulsewidth?
step size is allready set to 0 but i belive this onley affects VE table.
Any info on that 102 lambda when wbo is not in ext. I cant remember is this normal, wbo is almost new, just calibrated a year ago and sitting in closet....
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It works ok when in exhaust....
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http://hotfile.com/dl/38727490/af7336e/log_msq.rar.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/38727490/af7336e/log_msq.rar.html)
Here are log+ msq files, with diefferent timing table, car is at 90c idling...
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Smooth out your VE map. It kind of looks like you have acceleration enrichment going on, but it's in fact just the high VE values you've got going there. VE % does not go from 50% up to 70% just because vacuum changes from 50 to 70 kPa. It should be close to the same values at those pressures. Just do it slowly and maybe watch your EGO correction, see what it's trying to do to fix your bad VE map.
And about your idle. Lower it to where the stock engine usually idles, and make sure the ignition advance sites around idle ALL use the same advance. If you don't the idle may wander around and can also have a hard time to "settle down" because it is kept up at higher rpm because of higher advance in the map at the higher rpm. In reality we should have a special idle advance map, but that's a another wish I have for future firmware updates.
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Great tips, Thanks.
I also have yours 1.1.69, with some changes, so i'l flash it to 1.1.70 tomorrow so i dont need to map it twice, as there is no way to import maps in vemstune.
Btw latest vemstune looks really nice & simple.
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Im using 1.1.69 config from Matthias signature, flashed to 1.1.70 non ps2
Trigger settings are OK but i get this error.
Is it BUG or i missed something?
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1129/triger.png) (http://img255.imageshack.us/i/triger.png/)
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I also have yours 1.1.69, with some changes, so i'l flash it to 1.1.70 tomorrow so i dont need to map it twice, as there is no way to import maps in vemstune.
I import all the time, what do you mean?
Press F1 for help in the primary trigger dialog for help on tooth width.
You should get no warning for tooth width wit my config, I didn't when I upgraded from 1.1.64 last time. Was the sanity check done when you had flashed to 1.1.70 and then opened and uploaded my config?
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I also have yours 1.1.69, with some changes, so i'l flash it to 1.1.70 tomorrow so i dont need to map it twice, as there is no way to import maps in vemstune.
I import all the time, what do you mean?
Press F1 for help in the primary trigger dialog for help on tooth width.
You should get no warning for tooth width wit my config, I didn't when I upgraded from 1.1.64 last time. Was the sanity check done when you had flashed to 1.1.70 and then opened and uploaded my config?
Yes, flashed to .70 then opened yours .69 and burned on vems, , and when i check it i get that error.
You can import .vex or .msq to get your old ve or spark table?
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You can import .vex or .msq to get your old ve or spark table?
You can only import the old config/tables.txt or .vemscfg values. The point is to save the config in VemsTune before upgrading the firmware of the ECU. VemsTune can interface to 1.0.73 and you just save the config as usual. The only thing worth saving is the spark table so it's not a big deal if you only have the .msq (which you can't import).
Just double check the "tooth width" value, should be 6 degrees for 60-2, which is in my config. The reason for the warning is because this value does not exist in 1.0.x firmware, but obviously it generates a warning with 1.1.x upgrades too.
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Is there a TERMINAL in vemstune, to heat-up wbo2 before starting?
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Is there a TERMINAL in vemstune, to heat-up wbo2 before starting?
just start WB02 calibration from the Tools menu.
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On idle cca 1000rpm i egt is 330c, with motronic is 250c.
Lambda=1
Tried to change ignition +- 10 deg, same thing.
Any tips?
thanks
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http://www.2shared.com/file/cGYMVb9B/v33_n002183-20100514-175502.html
(http://www.2shared.com/file/cGYMVb9B/v33_n002183-20100514-175502.html)
Here is my vems log. 1.1.74 using edited config from Matthias.
Engine is runs strange, lots of vibrations. still sittig in garage, timing belt is replaced, timing rechecked with light... Lambda is 1 but it sounds strange.
Spark plugs are black. None of them was wet.
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I recived coils today, so i want to try them (all ready made harness for them)
I was told to use stepper outputs A B and C to drive them in wasted spark configuration.
What is recomended dwell for these coils 2ms?
And someone suggested to use resistor between trigger wires from two coils ( connected to one stepper output) and vems.
Is it need or not. My schematic is above...
THANK YOU ALL!!!
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I'm not sure on the useage of the coils, but I'd use 500 Ohm resistors in series on the wire to each trigger input on the coils.
Start out with 2 ms dwell, they are killed easily with too much dwell. If your engine runs alright with 2 ms, then don't increase it.
Your uploaded log file didn't work out right. Make sure to compress it to a zip file to make it easier to upload.
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http://hotfile.com/dl/48557866/ba24871/v3.3_n002183-2010.06.11-16.10.17.rar.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/48557866/ba24871/v3.3_n002183-2010.06.11-16.10.17.rar.html)
When will you have time take a look.
I'l try to measure resistance on input on coil and post it. To see if it would work without resistors or not.
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Single coil is around 390ohm between pin 2 and 3. (Vw 4pin active cop 115r)
If they are connected in parallel (2 coils on stepper A output) it would be around 195ohm "load" on stepper A output.
Would it be safe, any info, tips. Whats the best resistance to use on stepper...
Thanks.
The coil pack connections:
Pin 1: Connects to Pin 1 on all other coils and then to +12v ignition feed (or fuel pump relay).
Pin 2: Signal ground (connect to ground at MegaSquirt's ground)
Pin 3: Spark Signal from ECU (ign output without power transistor or logic level )
Pin 4: Power ground (Engine Earth)
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bump ;D
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Each stepper output can drive 1A of load, so it's not a problem. These coils are meant to be driven by logic-level signals so they don't require high amperage like a passive coil. We're talking mA draw here, 60 mA for two coils.
I was more thinking of how you were to go about creating a logic-level signal, my bad.
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No problem. Thanks for answer.
Mr_G told te that he has 2coils (vag 115r) on A stepper and 2 coil on B. Wasted spark. Directley, without resistors, and it works...
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(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5822/dejocop.png) (http://img231.imageshack.us/i/dejocop.png/)
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5548/imagesax.jpg)
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9785/imagejvl.jpg)
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4153/imagetp.jpg)
COP's are now connected to VEMS stepper outputs (see picture at the top)
Im using Vemstune and 1.1.74 FW
Im not sure how to change ignition settings.
Stepper B = 1&5 (coil for cyl.)
Stepper C = 4&3
Stepper A = 2&6
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HELP ??? ;D
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Can someone tell me is it right or wrong?
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Seems like a good start. I would get an extension wire (ignition cable) for the coils so that you can connect a strobe light and check the timing and ignition order.
Do NOT power the injectors until you know for certain that the ignition is firing correctly.
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Timing will be same as with stock dizzy?
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That does not matter. Timing should be what you have in the ignition advance table, or basically what the ignition advance gauge is telling you.
Be aware that there can be a number of features that alter the ignition advance away from what the table reads at any particular load site.
Use the timing light to roughly (+/- 10 degree) calibrate the "TDC after the trigger" value in the primay trigger settings dialog. Once the engine is running with a healthy VE tune at idle/low load (free revving) do a careful calibration of that value.
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Car works with stock dizzy ignition system, and TDC is set with timing light to be 44deg with crank advance.
Would it stay at 44deg with COPs installed if everything is connected ok, and vems configured?
Thanks
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As the timing is set off the crank trigger then the TDC *should* be correct - but you will *need* to confirm it
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I would check actual readings rather than just assume anything. Assumption is the mother of all cockups and is a sure way to damage something. It is simple enough to use an old HT lead and trim/ shape one end to fit the coil with the boot still in place, with the other end of the ht lead on the plug. You can then easily hook up a strobe.
If you have a strobe with the advance feature on it, dont use this feature, set it to zero. Any wasted spark system will play havoc with the actual readings if you do decide to try and zero in on TDC marks with this feature.
Set Crank advance to zero disconnect injectors and tune the trigger before TDC value using the strobe to visualy indicate how far out the settings are. You need a fairly acurate TDC mark on the pulley and engine though.
-
http://hotfile.com/dl/50021616/e40a16b/xxxxxxxxxxxx.rar.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/50021616/e40a16b/xxxxxxxxxxxx.rar.html) 1.1.74
All cops are working, but when checking with strobe gun tdc is waaaay off.
So i guess something is wrong in config.
I also get strange collision errors in vemstune ;water pump and boost are disabled and it says it collides with ignition outputs?
edit collision: dissapeared...
-
http://hotfile.com/dl/50021616/e40a16b/xxxxxxxxxxxx.rar.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/50021616/e40a16b/xxxxxxxxxxxx.rar.html) 1.1.74
All cops are working, but when checking with strobe gun tdc is waaaay off.
So i guess something is wrong in config.
I also get strange collision errors in vemstune ;water pump and boost are disabled and it says it collides with ignition outputs?
edit collision: dissapeared...
then set right settings for trigger toth, tdc delay and ign output.
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Problem is i dont know how to set ignition right :-X
Tdc was set before for stock dizzy and car worked.
And documentation has onley 4 cyl example.
If someone has 6cyl 60-2 wasted spark config bmw with diefferent fireing order i might be able to figure it out...
Now it's like this, and tdc is far far away :-\
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5822/dejocop.png) (http://img231.imageshack.us/i/dejocop.png/)
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5548/imagesax.jpg)
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9785/imagejvl.jpg)
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4153/imagetp.jpg)
COP's are now connected to VEMS stepper outputs (see picture at the top)
Im using Vemstune and 1.1.74 FW
Im not sure how to change ignition settings.
Stepper B = 1&5 (coil for cyl.)
Stepper C = 4&3
Stepper A = 2&6
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How far away 20-30 degrees, more?
Before or after TDC?
TDC after trigger will advance/retard the timing by as many degrees as you change it.
Trigger tooth with advance and retard by 6 degrees.
Try cranking and adjusting the settings and see what happens.
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Your trigger tooth ref table should read 0, 40, 20, 0, 40, 20 for faster starting.
If your firing order is 1-4-2-5-3-6 and the cyls are connected like :
Stepper B = 1&5
Stepper C = 4&3
Stepper A = 2&6
The coils will/must fire in this order if that is true : B, C and then A.
The ignition output table is traversed backwards, which means it will have one of these three patterns :
1 2 3
A C B
C B A
B A C
A C B
C B A
B A C
Which one is most correct is directly affected by how the "trigger ref tooth table" appears along with the small adjustments of the the trigger tooth and "TDC after the trigger".
Start off with "TDC after the trigger at about 60 degrees and trigger tooth 4, this is a standard setting that should work for most stock Bosch configurations. The trigger tooth can in your case be between 0 and up to 19, it must not be 20 or higher since 20x6 degrees for every tooth is = 120 degrees. If you must offset the trigger tooth that much to get cyl 1 to appear in the right place you need to rotate the ignition output table instead as each rotation in that table is 120 degrees. The idea is that the highest value in the trigger tooth ref table never exceeds 60 teeth (contains "0, 20, 40"), the missing teeth causes a reset in the number of counted teeth so the last ignition event never happens.
Always strobe cyl 1.
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Thanks! ;D ;D ;D
I changed only one thing: trigger tooth refrence to: 0,40,20,0,40,20 as you told me, checked it with timing light and it's aligned at 43degrees.
Everything else is same as before.
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Your trigger tooth ref table should read 0, 40, 20, 0, 40, 20 for faster starting.
If your firing order is 1-4-2-5-3-6 and the cyls are connected like :
Stepper B = 1&5
Stepper C = 4&3
Stepper A = 2&6
The coils will/must fire in this order if that is true : B, C and then A.
I installed COPs on car today, now it working on two cyl's, sometimes it catches on 4 cyls on light throttle.
New spark plugs are on the car,
Stepper B = 1&5 cyl - spark plug is "brown"
Stepper C = 4&3 cyl - spark plug is white (like NEW)
Stepper A = 2&6 cyl - spark plug is all black
Any tips :D I checked before with strobe cyl#1 and it was correct at 43 deg.
EDIT: i have spark on all 6 cops when checking... onley fire order is somehow wrong :'(
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Making progress.. just after reading Matthias post three times i decided to change outputs (backwards)
Changed from BCA to BAC in this table. Used timing light, and it's correct same as before, but now it works on all six cylinders...
Is this ok or it could be even better?
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8301/imageoqn.jpg)
Thanks for help guys!
-
This is my log.
http://hotfile.com/dl/57036388/ff4dc00/v3.3_n002183-2010.07.23-19.37.25.rar.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/57036388/ff4dc00/v3.3_n002183-2010.07.23-19.37.25.rar.html)
Exhaust smells strange, and thre's alot of smoke.
Engine gets hot really quick ( water temp sensor lies for about 6c).
I did make two passes of tune by statistics in garage...
Maybe changing cop fire order would help?
I get error "tooth width" and whatever i do it wont go away.
Im using 1.1.74 and latest vemstune
Just noticed that MAP multiplication is ON... does it need to be ON?
Thanks
Heres another log.. http://hotfile.com/dl/57037854/513bd55/v3.3_n002183-2010.07.23-19.24.42.rar.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/57037854/513bd55/v3.3_n002183-2010.07.23-19.24.42.rar.html)
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I switched back from COP to stock dizzy. config is the same.
Now theres no more smoke, and engine seems alot cooler.
WHY?
I tried to change fire order of wasted spark cops before but it wont start at dieffrent settings...
here are logs: with cops and with dizzy
http://rapidshare.com/files/408792990/alfav6T_logs.rar
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Where are you from(what city)?
Maybee is better that i come to you and set all settings correct.
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Hi i'm back with problems ;D
Here are my two small logs of car idling with different injector output order
http://fileape.com/dl/ekbw9xr8Z5Hlx4Xx (http://fileape.com/dl/ekbw9xr8Z5Hlx4Xx)
(to download first click regular, then after countdown click "click here to download")
heres what we know:
-vems v3.5 1.1.74 fw
-stock alfa v6 turbo 2.0
-primary trigger vr 60-2 stock alfa
-TDC after trigger strobed to 43degrees
-alfa v6 fire order: 1,4,2,5,3,6
-Using fixed stock distributor and single bosch coil, (identical to 6cyl E30 bmw)
-injector ch1 is conected to injecotor1 .. inj ch2 to injector2........
-siemens deka ev1 900cc injectors just installed
Car idles, at lambda around 1, but smell from exhaust is terrible one breath and it make you sick ???
When engine is cold, then its not so bad. If i turn down ve then lambda goes too lean..
I got some tips to change visual injector output from AndreNL so i made these two logs with that changed, he also pointed out that
primary trigger setting were wrong, (to set trigger tooth to 0) ? Tried that but engine starts and dies in a few seconds.
When making first log spark plugs were clean.
Is it possible to maybe have small air leak before wbo2 sensor and it makes a false reading?
Wbo is just behind turbo.
I need someone to confirm primary trigger, injector settings, injector visual outputs, ignition settings and ego closed loop.
Becouse im not capable to sync everything myself :-X :'(
My email is [email protected]
(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/5713/imagexgp.jpg)
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Here are my two small logs of car idling with different injector output order
First update to 1.1.91 instead of old 1.1.74 where injector angle curve actually makes sense, and it requires cam sync so I wouldn't chase this problem with how the injectors are fired. It's easier to get support if you use later firmwares too.
Beware of bad defaults if you upgrade to 1.1.91, developers are (should be) working on it. Press the validate config button until you are sure all bad defaults are gone. Use 1.1.88 if not certain you want to go that far, it has better support.
-primary trigger vr 60-2 stock alfa
Are you sure it's wired with correct polarity?
Update firmware to 1.1.91 and make a 4-5 second triggerlog while cranking. Hold WOT while cranking to activate flood clear = no injectors open and engine will not start. Post the triggerlog file.
I got some tips to change visual injector output from AndreNL so i made these two logs with that changed, he also pointed out that
primary trigger setting were wrong, (to set trigger tooth to 0) ? Tried that but engine starts and dies in a few seconds.
There is no point in setting "first trigger tooth" to 0 but you should lower it one or two teeth to get more margin to the highest advance your engine will use. Right now you have 43 degrees to TDC from the first trigger tooth, an example : if you lower the tooth value from 7 to 5, then you need to add 6+6 degrees to "TDC after the trigger", so it is equal to 43+6+6 = 55 degrees. That would give you identical timing to what you have now, only more margin. Verify with strobe light so that you understand the change made.
I need someone to confirm primary trigger, injector settings, injector visual outputs, ignition settings and ego closed loop.
Your "injector effective rampup" is 1 ms, set that to 0 - it's a better value, the injectors are fast and easy to tune.
Raise "injector voltage compensation" to 500 us.
I would raise or remove "overrun fuelcut" settings until the engine runs well and has a nicely tuned VE table.
You should only need max +/- 10% lean/rich for EGO correction when you're done tuning. If you're using it to form your new VE table, then it's ok to let it correct a lot like you are now (25%).
Give the EGO correction more warmup time, 60 secs is a good default. That value needs some documentation, I'm still not sure the correction is doing the right thing before the actual lambda heating is done and you can read the sensor value.
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flashed it to 1.1.88, made the changes you suggested, and here is trigger log
(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5223/dejotrigg0.png)
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1262/dejotrigg.png)
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5686/dejotrigg2.png)
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http://fileape.com/dl/GRQY3UpSwAYbHINg (http://fileape.com/dl/GRQY3UpSwAYbHINg)
and here is latest config in 1.1.88 with some injector 720degree errors :(
dont know how to correct it...
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Triggerlog looks ok, no "shadow tooth" after the gap that would indicate wrong polarity.
The injector angle curve error, it says pretty clearly in the config validation that because you're not using secondary trigger (cam sync) you need to set all angles at all rpms to 720 degrees. So do that.
The other error in the 'ECU calibrations' dialog, set "table kPa unit" to 2. It's the future. Check all your tables, the pressure scale will now have doubled.
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EDIT:
with injector ramup at 0 i car idles for 3 seconds and dies at 500us it idles at 450rpm at 1000us rumpup it idles at 750rpm... with 900cc siemens blue tip at 3 bar.. any suggestions?
This is last error its greyed out so i cant turn it of...
So i used andreNL's config and now i dont have any verify errors, and then changed tigger settings , outputs etc...
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5547/imagevlqd.jpg)
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My setup:
-vems v3.5 1.1.88 fw - no verify errors
-stock alfa v6 turbo 2.0
-primary trigger vr 60-2 stock alfa
-TDC after trigger strobed to 55degrees
-alfa v6 fire order: 1,4,2,5,3,6
-Using fixed stock distributor and single bosch coil, (identical to 6cyl E30 bmw)
-injector ch1 is conected to injecotor1 .. inj ch2 to injector2........
-siemens deka ev1 900cc injectors just installed, fuel pressure 3bar
http://fileape.com/dl/MHCdaoyW3XZ1bfov (http://fileape.com/dl/MHCdaoyW3XZ1bfov)
Here is my log in new config file. using 1.1.88
With lambda 1 it still smells on unburned gas. I have fuel pressure gauge and its steady at 3bar
Is any of these injector fireing order correct? Or its just impossible to work as ist should without camsync.
Injector order 1:
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7716/imagehqj.th.jpg) (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/imagehqj.jpg/)
Injector order 2:
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/443/imagemibt.th.jpg) (http://img853.imageshack.us/i/imagemibt.jpg/)
Primary trigger:
(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4086/imageuoy.th.jpg) (http://img143.imageshack.us/i/imageuoy.jpg/)
Refrence tooth:
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5299/imageizh.th.jpg) (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/imageizh.jpg/)
Igniton settings:
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/877/imageelp.th.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/imageelp.jpg/)
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with injector ramup at 0 i car idles for 3 seconds and dies at 500us it idles at 450rpm at 1000us rumpup it idles at 750rpm... with 900cc siemens blue tip at 3 bar.. any suggestions?
You must tune VE table at idle and low load, lowering the rampup value lowers the calculated pulsewidth so you must increase VE values.
Check the "calc model" gauge group in the view menu to get a better grip in what affects the calculated injector pulsewidth.
This is last error its greyed out so i cant turn it of...
Ignore the stepper error, it will be fixed in future VemsTune versions.
I have fuel pressure gauge and its steady at 3bar.
Steady - as in always 3 bar? What is the pressure when the fuel pump primes ? Also 3 bar?
Manifold pressure signal should greatly affect what you read on the gauge.
Is any of these injector fireing order correct? Or its just impossible to work as ist should without camsync.
Doesn't matter much until you add cam sync. You must have some other issue.
Your VE table is not smooth enough to make any kind of judgement. There are several things to manually fix in the table.
I would not rely on EGO correction to alleviate your VE table being less than perfect. It must be smooth.
In the datalog, is that just free revving on the garage floor? or actual driving?
What is the condition of your spark plugs and ignition system?
Fix the injector additive trim, you have 200 us added to one cylinder. Not a real serious problem, there is more to discover.
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when pump turs on for 3 seconds its 3.2 bar, when engine is runnig its 2.9-3.3 bar i think.
tried same FPR from spare engine and that one shows 4bar...
Im using prosport gauge... but one holds at 3bar other at 4bar?
In datalog its free revving .
Spark plugs are maybe little black but i was experimentig with settings/tables :D
I pulled front head from v6 today maybe gasket leaked very small amount of water to cyl 6... MAYBE :)
It sounded like engine was knocking very damped pop-pop noise...
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Is your FPR vacuum connected?
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yes its connected
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Return line large enough?
fuel pressure should behave in relations to the manifold pressure.
does it do that?
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2 gunni, i will check it when i recconect fuel gauge.
I changed effective rampup as Mattias told me, and now engine idles at VE 97..
Look at the picture. Is so high VE to be expected
(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7163/imageaxdk.jpg)
(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2405/imagevwn.jpg)
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It might be that your "req fuel" is not correct and too low, check it against the known formula (F1 for help in 'engine setup' dialog).
-
6x 870ccm
2L engine
It gives me 2.5ms it is allready 2.5 in config...
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if you have simens deka IV use:
open time 352
effectiva rampup 408
rampup voltage comp 4080
voltage compensation 800us
that are good settings for simens deka
in idle you should have VE 60-70
btw where are you from?
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Yes, they are deka IV, thanks for info.
Im between SK and ZG, Cro.
Sadly yesterday i put new headgasket, and now i see that liner moved and cracked rubber ring, and have traces of water in oil pan... so i have to do it again :-/
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if you have simens deka IV use:
open time 352
effectiva rampup 408
rampup voltage comp 4080
voltage compensation 800us
that are good settings for simens deka
in idle you should have VE 60-70
btw where are you from?
I got idle VE 63 with these, setting, drove car around, thanks ;D
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no problem.
btw if you want to have good tuned car, just send me PM. I have dyno and i did a lot vems instalation.
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Connected boost valve to vems today, it was working good last year, with old firmware/config, held pressure at 1.2bar
Now every time i hit the throttle boost goes to 1.2bar and hit overboost fuelcut.
When i remove fuse for boost valve, it drives ok, but onley at 0,5 bar (factory wastegate setting)
So what i need to edit to get boost valve to hold 1 bar steady?
Anyone got setting for valve from webshop?
THX!
(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7536/imageckk.jpg)
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I know it worked before, but you should never try to produce more than double the boost set by the wastegate spring.
The spring will be too soft and causes problems and overshoot.
Show us your tables for MAP target and reference duty cycle.
Check the datalogs to see what dutycycle the boost valve gets (screenshot is easy here too).
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I cant find map target, is tihs boost target 1st gear?
What i need to change to get it to hold pressure at 190kpa?
Stock ecu holds it at .9 bar with overboost at 1.2 bar
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5784/imagextp.jpg)
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6408/imagecmh.jpg)
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9585/imageyjon.jpg)
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Disable the PID first. Set all to 0.
Then set Boost target to 120 kPa, it's relative pressure not absolute (2.2 bar in your table).
The reference duty cycle of 100% means = valve never never let boost pressure open the wastegate, so you hit the overboost fuel cut.
So after fixing the above, start with something reasonable, like 50%. And see what boost that produces, raise (or lower) until you get your 1.2 bar boost. Then enable PID.
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http://fileape.com/dl/wuOLwgNGYTKYJk1B (http://fileape.com/dl/wuOLwgNGYTKYJk1B)
Here is my log driving...
When refDC is at around 73, P I D are zero. now i get desired 210kpa boost. (110kpa boost target)
If i enter P I D values then i get around 170kpa max.
And it look like boost build up is somehow slow :-\
Could you also take a look at off throttle afr and my egt readings its maybe too high... its hot day...
Thanks, for tips!
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your boost target table is all wrong(rpms and boost target).
Fill that table and you will have good boost.
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Do you maybe have some exaple?
Is it like
800 rpm 0kpa
2000rpm 40kpa
or? just enter rpms and leave 110 kpa target?
THx
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put rpms, 2000 3000 4000 4500 5000 ....
and for boost target put real values. So if your turbo is filling let say 150kPa(apsolute) at 3000rpm then put 150 as target. So at 4500+ put 210kPa target.
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When im driving, lets say at 4000 rpm and lift throttle, it revs goes down as car is deaccelerating, lambda shows lean as it should, and then at around 2000rpm i get 0.86 AFR and with zero throttle.
Why?
How to get it to go to 900 rpm without injecting fuel.
If im in fifth gear at 1700 rpm an i lift throttle, it stays for a few seconds at 1700 then slowly goes down to 900, same thing happens when i press clutch.
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your fuel cut and idle settings are wrong. It's hard to make perfect idle with very low fuel cut. If you put to low fuel cut you will have problems with engine stalling.
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I switched to vag COP ignition last week, everything was fine first day, then tomorrow morning started car and it didn't fire on all six...
It turns out that one COP burned out
Are Dwell 1.47ms and map scale settings (2) good?
Also does enyone have PID and other setting for bosch two pin idle valve?
If someone uses same valve, please post screenshot or mail config to: [email protected]
Thanks
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7291/imagehge.jpg)
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6922/iac.jpg)
(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/8325/imageqtv.jpg)
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try p=45 i=10 d=50
-
Tried dieffrent settings.
when IAC is disabled then engine runs at 1300rpm idle when warm.
If i enable IAC then it jumps up and down from 500 to 1300 rpm forever, tried to play with ve but then engine stalls :-\
this is PWM type... tryed changing from 50 to 200hz.
-
Making progress.
now car idles at 850rpm , when i rev it to lets say 2000rpm and lift throttle, it dies.
Witch setting to look at to fix it?
-
if you have bosch IAC, then put min pwm 37%
put to ref table 45%
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Connected secondary trigger today, it works, im getting some trigger errors, maybe its becouse little loose sensor. (now fixed sensor mount+changer to falling edge trigger=no errors)
its hall from webshop, primary is 60-2 vr
alfa v6 fire order: 1,4,2,5,3,6
teeth order is set to: 20,40,60,80,100,0
COP's are paired on stepper output A B C like this:
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5822/dejocop.png) (http://img231.imageshack.us/i/dejocop.png/)
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5548/imagesax.jpg)
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9785/imagejvl.jpg)
Can someone take a look at the log/ config and suggest me injector fire order,injector spray angle and take a look at sec trigger settings. as guage jumps from 0 to 360degree sometimes.
Here is LOG:
http://fileape.com/dl/OveLIUJGCcJJzAUV (http://fileape.com/dl/OveLIUJGCcJJzAUV)
If someone is so good to change it, you could mail me config to: [email protected]
THX!!
-
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2512/imagezcv.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/imagezcv.jpg/)
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7466/imagefao.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/imagefao.jpg/)
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3263/imagebdx.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/imagebdx.jpg/)
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/3083/imagebzu.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/593/imagebzu.jpg/)
???
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What problems do you have?
I`m not shure how does wasted spark works when you have secondary trigger,but i think your h[2] table is not ok.
It should be reversed (from bottom to top,as you can see in the dialog box)
If you wired cops like in picture then the outputs should look like:
A
C
B
A
C
B
because youre firing order is 1-4-2-5-3-6
Thats how it works on VR 60-2 without Hall sensor....
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it's (i posted wrong screenshot :-[ )
And cops are connected like on posted picture
B
A
C
B
A
C
if i change it to
A
C
B
A
C
B
then it backfires
-
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9589/imagehvn.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/imagehvn.jpg/)
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9864/imagefdr.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/193/imagefdr.jpg/)
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/2272/imagewyvj.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/imagewyvj.jpg/)
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3474/imagejew.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/imagejew.jpg/)
(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2275/imagezxv.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/imagezxv.jpg/)
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I dont understand what you want to know.
Isnt it starting?
-
On same VE , and same spark advance lambda fluctuates. 0,95-1,05 for example on idle. it seems like there is unburned fuel.
And when driving it it smells really bad from exhaust, fuel consumption is almost double than it should be.
-
Is your TS diode in place?
Sounds like injector control needs addressing, and quite possibly the injector sequence.
Best to inject at the same time as the cylinder is firing, the fuel then hits the back of a hot valve and evaporates nicely.
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I had same problem at one cilinder when hot, .
Turn out to be a bad solder joint at cilinder one flyback diode path.
Sound like all injectors are to slow check flyback wire,
but first turn injector opening rampup to zero
with big injectors this can be to much fuel to stabelize.
This fuel is added to the calculated amount.
Check plugs, check ignition dwell if spark is not strong enough you get carbon build up and this gives a bad ignition to.
Resume:
Check voltage flyback and coils
Put rampup to zero
Dwell 4ms
Clean plug
Start engine
Still lots off fuel check accelleration enrichment
Carrefully recheck combined flyback
And for voltage pulldowns because off to much load on a wire
Goodluck
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does anyone know why one of the three spark plugs on the front head is brown? :)
I also get missfire/backfire in intake on high load above 4000rpm
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7725/imagehbx.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pn8EmtvM4E
-
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3714/imageemu.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/imageemu.jpg/)
1-4-2-5-3-6 with camsync, it should be in sync now?
stepper B =1&5
stepper C =4&3
stepper A =2&6
angle curve is 400 is that ok?
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trigger:
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5822/dejocop.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/231/dejocop.png/)
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6515/imagezml.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/imagezml.jpg/)
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5226/imagecwvk.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/338/imagecwvk.jpg/)
Why individual power 1 and 4 are always higher?
Any tips on Siemens injector 980cc HighZ settings. traditional / simplifed?
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You can use the built-in report tool to publish triggerlog, config and log files. See the Help menu. It will produce a link that you can post here.
You may have your trigger sensor polarity reversed, that causes one cylinder pair to be a bit offset.
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http://vems.hu/vemstune/bugreports/reports.php?cmd=view&key=R63GwL (http://vems.hu/vemstune/bugreports/reports.php?cmd=view&key=R63GwL)
Here it is, triggerlog is included in "other" folder...
edit:
Just check injector connector with dvm in diode setting and got around 1800mV on all six.
On ec36 connector side,with injectors connected it was around 14.5ohm for all six of them.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdKj1-2KJDo
Top two fuses are COP for left and right head, on other fuses it reads steady 13.6v on cop fuses it shows random values.. +12 is from same source/relay...
they are connected to stepper output 1+1, one ground is on cyl head, second is at ECU ground.
Any info how to check COP?
They all got spark
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You trigger signal looks good, no obvious problem at the missing teeth so polarity should be fine. But the symptom you have is the same as when the polarity is wrong.. strange.
With the engine running, check the individual power gauge and remove one injector connector at a time to find the cylinder pair with the issues.
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Did you see "ghost" wheelspeed signal (not connected) ?
could you tell me if injector order / cop order / 400deg. angle curve is ok?
Just uploaded new config to vems with boost selenid enabled and it goes fine, no missfires when it reaches boost like before maybe i had bad fuel problem or something fixed itself :) ???
"individual power" diefference remains, what it does to injection overfuel?
Does anyone have best settings for boost selenoid from shop and simplified settings for 870cc siemens injectors?
log:
http://vems.hu/vemstune/bugreports/reports.php?cmd=view&key=NIMtFr (http://vems.hu/vemstune/bugreports/reports.php?cmd=view&key=NIMtFr)
Thanks!
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Yes, I saw the ghost signal. Not sure what it means, it shouldn't matter as it is not used in your setup.
The injection angle of 400 only makes sense when you isolate the cyl 1 in the ignition table. The corresponding injector should open on the same line in the injector table. It doesn't matter much to the running of a pretty much stock engine like this, with more radical cams and valve overlap it starts to matter more.
Plot "current VE" and "EGO corrected VE" on top of each other and you should reach a good tune in no time. Make sure you use "egoCorrGauge" as descriptor for both, easier to watch them overlaid on top of each other. This should be default, but it is not.
Your difference in "individual power" refers to ignition. I'm afraid if you make accurate marks 120 degrees apart on the damper or wherever you use a timing light, then if you lock the ignition one of the cylinder pairs will be offset - this is normally due to the VR sensor polarity. But in your case, this seems not to be the case but I would investigate anyhow. It's easy enough, 20 teeth apart you can make good marks and then lock the ignition. You can easily calculate how many degrees the ignition is offset, simple math, use the numbers from the individual power gauge at a specific rpm.
I don't have "best" settings for your injectors or boost solenoid, I think a guide should be written..
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So what i want to to with injector angle? put it to 720 or someting?
Is this ok?
1-4-2-5-3-6 with camsync, it should be in sync now?
stepper B =1&5
stepper C =4&3
stepper A =2&6
(http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/7/imagerbm.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/imagerbm.jpg/)
Thanks!
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really need info on injection angle :)
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Inj angle means how much degrees injector closes (end of injection) before TDC of compression stroke end. Something like 400deg for injecting on closed valve. Less - if you want inject through opened valve.
Gints
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My log:
http://fileape.com/dl/hRfagGySouXHUIs9 (http://fileape.com/dl/hRfagGySouXHUIs9)
Problem is that i need to try to start engine three times and blip throttle, before it stays running when engine is cold.
What do I need to change?
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Engines rarely start or idle without air. Consider raising your "IAC duty while cranking" for both cold and hot engine by a lot.
You're using way more cranking enrichment than normal, which should be obvious if you compare with other peoples config files. It could be that your "cranking VE %" is way off, it should be fixed (raised) instead of raising the values in the cranking enrichment table.
More afterstart enrichment is probably needed too, pulsewidth looks short at the end, using more cycles for afterstart (most likely) will help and you probably need overall more afterstart enrichment at that coolant temp (10 C).
Your IAC PWM reference curve looks funny. It's extremely unlikely that you require the same duty cycle from 10 C and up unless you rely on the PID regulation to do the job which is not an optimal solution in and in itself.
If you bring up your datalog with the proper variables this is all quite apparent, but I guess it takes a trained eye to know what to look for.
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If it starts but don't stays running and don't follow throttle, you also need to review your warmup curve and acc. enricment.
Warmup seems low for 15 and 26deg. For acceleration you can put much higher values for cold enrichment. And reshape dTPS curve. At low TPS speed you need less fuel, at fast - much more.
I usually use longer afterstart enrichment values.
Gints
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Thansk for info.
Made changes as suggested and it starts perfectly.
One mere question , in RPM/MAP MAP corr table all values are 100, does this table needs to be filled with zeros?
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8920/imagetyw.jpg)
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That table has no effect unless you run Alpha-N with MAP correction, which you don't.
However "100" is a good default if you use this feature, as it means = 100% = no change.
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Hi, i just opened my old log file in new version of vemstune and now i see "real cyl order" function.
What would happen i i changed "REAL CYLINDER ORDER" to 1-4-2-5-3-6 in both ignition and injector outputs. Would offset / fire order relative to trigger wheel change ( fuel injectet or spark at different time?)
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The "real cylinder order" is a display only function for making the user experience easier.
If you made notes about the wiring, which cylinder injector and coil go to which pin, then it is easier to input that in the tables if you can actually see the cylinder numbers in the software. It changes the header display of each column in the injector and ignition output tables, nothing else. It has no idea which cylinder order you have, which is why you must select the one you have to make sense of what you see.
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i have edited posts to simplify things....
Now you can see that stepper output B is cyl 1&5....
Injectors are connected as in vems pinout, 1-6 (0-5) nothing special...
Trigger wheel has been verified with timing light. with ignition outputs like that.
And i had two individual cylinder power higher than others. (maybe bad coils?)
should be like this for 1-4-2-5-3-6 with camsyinc and COPS..?
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/777/eb7l.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/eb7l.jpg/)
Thank you for info.
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Looks about right.
Do you have cam sync?
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yes i have camsync. hall type with one tooth.
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Publish a datalog of a cold start running until it's warmed up and describe what you think is wrong or not feels right.
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After replacing engine and upgrading vems to new bootloader and latest firmware i cant start the car...
Harness is same as before, using old config from 1.1.96
It seems to be trigger problem, primary is stock vr secondary is improvised hall
(http://i.imgur.com/b2hN3xy.png)
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Triggerlog looks ok. Publish a vemslog or config (using built-in error report in help menu).
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http://www.filedropper.com/v33u002183-20140801-195734
Here is log file.
Ignition was confirmed with timing light before i mounted intake.
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Here is an edited config file with a lot of validation errors and other things removed/changed.
Download link is on the bottom right view :
http://vems.hu/vemstune/bugreports/reports.php?cmd=view&key=kIoc2z
Please use this error report link for future communication as well.
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Thanks for help. I didnt noticed config validation error because of bug in vemstune or windows 8.1, little box that pops out to say it has errors or that vems is connected is just white with no text :)
Its same on laptop and desktop PC. Using latest Vemstune. Maybe developers can take a look at it on new windows.
Engine starts!
Thanks!
What would be best injecton angle for this engine??
(http://i.imgur.com/v9Zpgvk.jpg)
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Trouble with missfires.
Using 60-2 VR stock and homemade hall CAM sensor with 1 tooth
(http://i.imgur.com/YfDpE4s.jpg) V6 engine on VW 06H-998-115r COP from 1.8t
full sequential, everything is 1:1 INJ00 to injector1 ign00 to COP#1...
I have problems with small missfires and unburned fuel smell, problem seems to be on "front head" with cylinders 4- 5- 6
Log file is with cold engine, problem just on cyl #6 when it gets hotter missfire spread to 4-5-6 on that fromt head of engine, rear head 1-2-3 looks good on individual power.
I hear popping sound even on 2500 rpm.
I tried to measure heat from exhaust manifold on that head and it seems to be little hotter.
Harness for cops i checked with DVM. Tried to rotate brand new cops and it did not help. New spar plugs replaced...
Every set of Coil is grounded to its own head, i tried to connect two head ground with wire an i did not help.
Its like something is out of sync. So im not sure if my triggerlog is good or not?
I also get strange individual power readings before i crank engine:
https://youtu.be/gt4M41lJ6mI (https://youtu.be/gt4M41lJ6mI)
Here is triggerlog
(http://i.imgur.com/2Sa81Fh.png)
Log file
https://www.dropbox.com/s/es3doe9cxkqmng4/v3.3_u002183-2015.08.06-18.09.45_X.vemslog?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/es3doe9cxkqmng4/v3.3_u002183-2015.08.06-18.09.45_X.vemslog?dl=0)
Triggerlog file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ff1makyzj40ekym/v3.3_u002183-2015-08-06-20.03.15.triggerlog?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ff1makyzj40ekym/v3.3_u002183-2015-08-06-20.03.15.triggerlog?dl=0)
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Hello Lost,
I have reviewed your triggerlog and vemslog, did some quick timing calcs based on that:
triggerlog:
* from triggerlog it seems your ignition timing calibration is off, your vemslog shows 8 deg cranking degree configured, your triggerlog show spark around 0-2 deg BTDC; did you verify engine timing with timing light ?
vemslog:
* the strange individual power is because you have wbo2 started before power-up enabled; when engine is not running and wideband control is ON these variables are re-used for wideband statistics and status variables. No need to worry.
* I do not see any alarming individual power difference at idle, take care of the units: average diff is around 70-150 usec, rpm period @950 rpm is around (1/(950/60))/2=31.57msec so its only a 150usec/31.57msec * 100 = 0.475% diff (when taking the worst case 150usec reading) quite even.
Best regards, Dave
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This is how my trigger wheel looks, now its at engine TDC mark alinged, aligment mark is between two teeth. VR is set to rising edge. good?
With these settings on picture 2 i have strobed timing with 0 deg. cranking advance and its spot on with TDC after trigger 55 degreee set in vemstune.
Camsync is 1 teeth hall, falling edge.
If trigger tooth is 5 it looks like there is 30 teeth to TDC, thats 180degree and in setting i strobe TDC after trigger at 55degrees???
(http://i.imgur.com/aS1462Kh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VfqkHXsl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SPriCV9l.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/zzBYSY7.png)
Triggerlog with 0 degree advance checed with timing light, used settings as on screenshot above:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5n28wc82b0ml5c1/2nd_log_with%200degree_advance_v3.3_u002183-2015-08-07-18.55.03.triggerlog?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5n28wc82b0ml5c1/2nd_log_with%200degree_advance_v3.3_u002183-2015-08-07-18.55.03.triggerlog?dl=0)
Config from previous post, everything connected 1:1 ign00 out to cop1 ... inj_out00 to injector1 ...... :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/es3doe9cxkqmng4/v3.3_u002183-2015.08.06-18.09.45_X.vemslog?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/es3doe9cxkqmng4/v3.3_u002183-2015.08.06-18.09.45_X.vemslog?dl=0)
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Hello Lost,
Thats a lot of info but timing calibration takes all that out of the equation. If you forced timing to 0-0.25 degree with running engine (after initial rough calibration during cranking) and your timing mark lines up than you should be good to go. I have not reviewed your config in detail but i did see a definite difference between spark position in you last "2nd_log_with 0degree_advance_v3.3_u002183-2015-08-07-18.55.03.triggerlog" and previous "v3.3_u002183-2015-08-06-20.03.15.triggerlog" triggerlog of about 2 crank degrees.
Best regards, Dave
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Thak you for help Dave.
Problem is that only diffrence between 1st and 2nd trigger log is that on second, crank timing is set to 0deg.
And i used cop connector from cyl3 for timing light then changed in cofig to become cyl1 ignition. So i can use timing light because it is difficult to get to actual cop on cyl1 :)
I did not touch anything in trigger setting, or adjused TDC.
You wrote: " from triggerlog it seems your ignition timing calibration is off, your vemslog shows 8 deg cranking degree configured, your triggerlog show spark around 0-2 deg BTDC; did you verify engine timing with timing light ?"
I dont know how to read triggerlog, now with 0 degree cranking ignition is triggerlog correct?
And why it would be if i did not changed anything excepet swithched 8deg cracking to 0.
Should primary VR be set to falling edge becouse timing mark is between tooth?
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Hello Lost,
Don't worry about reading the triggerlog in both cases your triggerlog is good do not adjust trigger polarity, but when people state there is some problem with misfire i try to estimate if it might be caused by some base timing calibration offset (or not calibrated at all) in your case it seemed a bit off.
But lets not complicate things and take it one step at a time, i still do not have a definitive answer on -> did you calibrate the engine base timing using:
If you forced timing to 0-0.25 degree with running engine (after initial rough calibration during cranking) and your timing mark lines up with a dumb non adjustable timing light triggering from the (temporary placed) ignition lead between cop coil and spark plug ?
Best regards, Dave
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Hello Dave.
Here is triggerlog, now its directly from cop#1 (wire between cop and sparkplug) 0 degree crank timing
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z4z0hnwk0g0fsp5/0degree_crankVE_timing_light_at_mark_v3.3_u002183-2015-08-08-18.52.08.triggerlog?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/z4z0hnwk0g0fsp5/0degree_crankVE_timing_light_at_mark_v3.3_u002183-2015-08-08-18.52.08.triggerlog?dl=0)
And here is log with engine running on its own power with 0 degree crank and run (ignition) andvance, tested with timing light while running and mark at crankshaft aligns 100%.
Timing light is connected to cop1.....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5x4tbq7cvjnu7zm/running_with_timing_light_on_cop1_on_mark_0degree_ignition_v3.3_u002183-2015.08.08-18.49.15.vemslog?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5x4tbq7cvjnu7zm/running_with_timing_light_on_cop1_on_mark_0degree_ignition_v3.3_u002183-2015.08.08-18.49.15.vemslog?dl=0)
I also made video with phone ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lif5od29hlM&feature=em-upload_owner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lif5od29hlM&feature=em-upload_owner)
On first engine i had two cylinders up in individual power when compared to other four, and Matthias told me in this thread that maybe there is offset between cyls, and if i make 120 degree markings on crankshaft two would hit timing mark and one wont. Now with this engine i dont have that problem. And its same as old one, same sensors harness... And i get small missfires especialy when engine is hot. on head 4-5-6 that has cam sensor on it.
edit: I have checked timing belt on both heads,and injectors are new and cop harness is tested.
Now il put back cam covers and intake and test it again.
(http://i.imgur.com/OijyTqE.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/3Yjv02F.png)
When i look at triggerlog it looks like its fireing 1-6-5-4-3-2 ignition, it shuld it be 1-4-2-5-3-6 like my engine real fire order is?
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Hello Lost
When i look at triggerlog it looks like its fireing 1-6-5-4-3-2 ignition, it shuld it be 1-4-2-5-3-6 like my engine real fire order is?
Short answer: No.
Elaboration: The numbering in the triggerlog is after index (IGN0_Falling = Index 0) in the h[2] table (Ignition outputs, where you put the outputs in firing order and assign real cylinder number), internally the firmware uses sequential indexing (which is translated to actual cylinder number/output though the translation table h[2]).
Best regards, Dave
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Thank you Dave for explainig.
I have checked with timing light cyl 5 and it alignes/strobes at the same time as cyl1, markings on engine and pulley aligns like when cyl1 is on TDC, i suppose its just one crankshaft rotation more, so its ok.
I counted and marked tooth on pulley with paint and cylinders 4-5-6 are exactly 120 degree apart (20 tooth), as i wrote before 1 aligns with 5. So it sould be 100% correct.
Does anyone know good dwell time for
vag vw cop 1.8t
06B905115R i think it has around 360ohm between pin 2 and 3 signal ground/signal+ on COP
I have them wired from ingnition outputs directly, one ignition output one cop, i have just added one 500ohm smd parralel to existing one on genboard.
(http://best-b2b.com/userimg/658/691-1/ignition-coil-807.jpg)
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Hello Lost,
Good to hear ignition timing is spot on now
Does anyone know good dwell time for
vag vw cop 1.8t 06B905115R
Good dwell for 115R VAG cops: 1.5-1.8ms,
Best regards, Dave
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Could someone tell me inection angle curve to set in vemstune from this:
(http://i.imgur.com/v9Zpgvk.jpg)
Engine is stock, has good idle, 14.7:1 but exhaust smell is terrible, really stinks, maybe injection angle would help or timing retard?