VEMS Community Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dnb on April 25, 2007, 12:29:06 pm
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...for one of my next projects.
I have always wanted a Caterfield of some description. I thought it might be a bit of fun as a commuting car for next summer. Let's face it, petrol isn't getting any cheaper and I'm beginning to feel the pinch at running the Scoob full time for my daily commute to work. (Well, that and Super unleaded here costing £1.03 per litre now!!)
I have no desire to have a Eurobox of any description - I detest front wheel drive cars now, and generally don't feel as if I'm in full control of them. There's not a lot of choice in the "frugal" RWD bracket, and I have no desire to ride a motorcycle.
So, I would like suggestions as to an engine for the Caterfield. Has to be less than 1545cc for tax reasons. It'll be VEMS controlled (of course) and it'll have to be tunable and capable of reasonable economy, because let's face it, I don't want a slow, thirsty car.
My first thoughts are that I should put a Hyabusa engine in it, but I'm unsure as to how thirsty they are and how tractable the car will be as a every (fine) day car.
Over to you! :)
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Hi,
Well chhep plug here for my mate's company.
www.mnrltd.co.uk
Hybusas are a good choice but there is of issues with oil surge.
marc has lots of R1 ones.
regards
Agriv8
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Nice looking selection there :D I especially like the idea of a car weighing less than 400kg!
So it looks like the best option for the moment is a bike engine.
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How far is the dailly commute ? is it mainly A roads, B roads motorway ?
Regards
Agriv8
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If utimate performance isn't the requirement, why not consider some alternative bike engines. ZZR1100, Fazer 1000, CB1100 etc. Most are similar to their race oriented cousins, but have cams and carbs more for midrange than full on screaming power, and I'm guessing they will be a lot cheaper than R1 and hayabusa motors.
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6.5 miles if I go directly.
1 mile A road, NSL when clear, crawl when not!
1 mile 30 limit, usually heavy traffic
1.5 miles dual carriageway - usually clear
3 miles (twisty) A road with 40 limit
It can become 20 miles if I go the fun way :)
Yes - ultimate performance isn't the goal - that's why I have a 5 litre v8 in the garage.
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bike engines 7s can be tiresome in stop start trafic and the clutch even if uprated may not last too long. Thus the question re the travel
400kilo can be acheived but it isnt cheap and you won't be having the padded seats.
Out of the 100 kits sold by mnr 80 must br R1's a few zx12's a couple of hyabusas a zx14 is being built for a customer. The rest are car engined Zetec mainly and 2 daft burgers with Rover V8's ( though 1 is slightly less daft because he has upgraded to VEMS ;D ;D ).
I am by no means a guru I think the Fazer is a very close relation to the R1. I think you are looking at arround 1k to 1.5k for a R1 from a know breaker that MNR use ( depending on age ) though as you whant Inj rather than carbed this could be cheaper as injection motors tend to need a power comander for the SVA test
Regards
Agriv8
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A power commander? What does one of those do?
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Its just an injector frig box like an SAFC or e manage or similar
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Power conader wat do they do :--
Tend not to work ( they are a lot better Now )
being serious piggy back ecu only for fueling though the latest ones can do timing as well but these are £££.
To enable you to get the emmisions for SVA.
Or as cliff put it ;D ;D ;D
Regards
Agriv8
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In other words, a load of rubbish that I won't need :D
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Malc from yorkshire engines ( can be trusted ) just posted this weeks engine list up.
Here you go
here we go again more engine kits
ok now this is a beauty
2007 (06 spec) hayabusa kit complete less clocks (you can have them but there us except for proof of mileage ...............
16 miles from showroom to salvage yard
no price yet but should be around £3k
2007 zzr1400 183 miles £3k
2006 1000rr 300 miles £1850
2006 R1 400 miles £1850
2007 zx10 unknown but no muck on sprocket £1850
2005 zx10 2k miles £1300
2005 1000rr £1450
2002 929 blade with keys £850 !!!!!!
2003 954 blade damaged mounts ok though £900
how long do we think the busa will last
answers on postcard please
cheers malc 07960011585
Regards
Agriv8
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One thing aswell that has yet to be said about the bike engines is fuel economy! Yes, they only around the 1 litre mark, but they do drink some fuel!! Just as a rough guide, I'm currently getting only around 30mpg out of my GSXR1000 when ridden with a fair bit of enthusiasm shall we say lol! And thats with a bikes weight of around 180kg. And as was previously said, 400kg may take some achieving in a car (although very possible).
For a daily driver, i would be tempted for some type of car engine. For a track toy, bike engines are awesome, but are tiresome on the road.
Just off the top of my head, taking into account the cc limit, hows about one of the old D15 honda engines?? They are dirt cheap now (£100 would get you an entire car!), and no end of people have tweaked them, along with turbo charged versions, but then the fuel economy may suffer!!
Just throwing some different ideas out there :)
I assume the 1545cc is the absolute limit, and a 1.6 couldn't creep in? even at 1599cc? :p Just opens up an entire different range of engines!
-Gavin
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Blame the government for the 1545cc, not me! I'd quite happily put a TVR 4.2 litre ajp8 engine in otherwise. (The VEMS might not work though!)
It's the government limit to get cheap tax - it's the 3rd car for 2 of us after all!
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How about...
Polo 1.6 TDi engine?
I've often thought that a kit car would suit the diesel, and you could do something interesting with the final drive with all that torque and so little weight.
Rob
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I can see I need to let you drive the Griff again - talking about torque and weight like that ;)
Diseasal is a very good idea - and it's something no-one has tried as far as I know. (Plus I can make my own fuel) It'll be probably be full price tax, but at 60 or 70 to the gallon, who cares!
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Dailly driver is 1.9 Passot tdi 110 bhp 204,000 miles and genrally abussed apart from oil and filter every 10k.
PPC magazine has a feature on a chap fitting a 1.9 VAG into a westie.
the main issue I can see with that is final drive ratio ( the same issue as fitting the v8 ) you would need somthing arround the 3.1 to 1 diff the good old sierra is used for the diffs in most 7's. There is a 3.14 version but 'Hens teath' springs to mind as it was in the 2.3 Deisel plus the are £££ trust me I have one add the LSD unit its even more. !!!!
what diff does the Trevor run ?
Regards
Agriv8
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Mine has an old GKN diff which (I think) came from a Jag XJS originally. TVR had it modified with an LSD unit.
Final drive in all cases is approx 3.3, and they're like hens teeth too!
The newer ones use a BTR unit and some have a hydratrack diff. (not sure if this is a trade name for the whole unit or just the LS part) Not sure on the ratios, but I think they are similar.
I thought about using a UK Impreza diff - they come in 3.45:1 and 3.9:1 ratios. Jap stuff is just silly - the RA is 4.44:1!
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Hey no fair - you changed the rules! :D
If Truck engines are an option then I'd say find the TDi from a Seat Leon Cupra or Golf GTTDi (150bhp) and fit the whole lot in the back of a series 1 elise.
Semi-practical car, less problems with the extra weight affecting weight distribution, box suits the engine and as much power as the car originally had with buckets more torque!
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Cliff - that sounds all together too much like a plan! :D
I wonder what the insurance would be like?
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VEMS controlled VAG Oil burner now there a thing. what controls the variable turbo on those ECU ? I know it has an fuel ECU as mine had a diky fit once. are the injectors ecu controled ?
regards
Agriv8
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I think the ECU does control the turbo on the VW PD lumps and i'd guess the injectors are ECU controlled.
The best buy is a PD 130BHP lump and not a 150BHP lump as they are rarer and go for a lot more money...The 130's in a Golf or Audi with a uprated intercooler and a remap will do 200bhp all day apparently. They also share some bottom end bits with the 150 so its a pretty strong engine.
I have recently got a Golf Mk4 with a 115PD unit fitted, which peaks at 210lb/ft of torque....
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Vems has no chance of controlling an engine like that unfortuantely. The injector driving for common rail diesel is pretty complicated stuff (like gasoline DI only worse :-\) You'd need to keep the original ECU, and probably several other modules for immobiliser etc. Wouldn't be totally straightforward, but I'm sure its do-able. There seem to be plenty of diesel tuning specialists springing up that could surely help you understand what you need.
Insurance isn't going to be worse than any other one-off I wouldn't expect. At the end of the day its just an engine swap, and there's plenty of elises with 1.8T engines now, so its not entirely new.
Rich - some good advice there. :)
Now I'm going to stop as I'm really not interested in the dirty smelly things (Bah humbug....)
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Looky
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LOTUS-ELISE-S-REG-ACCIDENT-DAMAGED-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ130106084558QQihZ003QQcategoryZ43114QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LOTUS-ELISE-S-REG-ACCIDENT-DAMAGED-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ130106084558QQihZ003QQcategoryZ43114QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Gotta be tempting......