VEMS Community Forum
VEMS => Configuration => Topic started by: black on March 09, 2015, 10:00:44 am
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I found something strange in VEMSTune with internal 700kPa MAP Sensor.
VEMS M55 AAN 3.6 - firmware 1.2.10
I replaced the internal 400kPa MAP sensor by an internal 700kPa sensor (5700)
Trying to calibrate the MAP sensor in VEMS config file - ECU offline
MAP Range Unit -- setting from normal (<510) to double (>510)
Table kPa Unit -- still 2 (4 is tested at the end of this posting)
Restarting VEMSTune
MAP Sensor Range (slope) -- trying to set it to 780 --> getting error message "Value out of range"
maximum in calibration is 510 - should be 1020
Connecting ECU -- ECU now online
MAP Range Unit -- setting from normal (<510) to double (>510)
Table kPa Unit -- still 2 (4 is tested at the end of this posting)
Restarting VEMSTune
MAP Sensor Range (slope) -- trying to set it to 780 - success!
maximum with ecu online is now 1020 in calibration menu
trying to set MAP AXIS in VE table or ign table up to 600 --> getting error message "Value out of range"
maximum for table AXIS is 510 - should be 1020
trying to set MAP value in RevLimit/Overrun/Safety for Overboost fuelcut to 650 --> not possible!
maximum for overboost fuelcut is 510 - should be 1020
this is also critical because engine produces up to 550 kPa of boost!
ECU still connected - ECU online
testing map sensor with VEMS gauge -- sensor is working fine, gauge shows values up to 700kPa
starting new logfile -- logfile is fine, showing values up to 700kPa
saving logfile to harddisk
saving config file to harddisk
ECU diconnected - ECU now offline
loading configfile to VEMSTune
calibration settings are still correct (780, double, 2)
All Values for MAP in menus and table AXIS are shown as half value, max is 255 now??? -- error!
typing 50, 100, 255 in VE table MAP Axis
Saving config file
Connecting ECU -- ECU now online
loading config file back to ecu
calibration settings are still correct (780, double, 2)
All Values for MAP in menus and table AXIS are right value now 100,200,510 like it should be!
So there are some issues:
first, no way to calibrate the sensor correct in VEMSTune when ecu is offline
second, if ecu is offline, all values for MAP in AXIS and menus are shown half but correct when ecu online again
third, 700kPa sensor is calibrated correct and shows correct values when ecu is online, calibration max is 1020 but max in table AXIS and safety or range funktions in menus are still limited to 510!
ECU diconnected - ECU now offline
loading previous saved logfile to VEMSTune
All values in logfile are correct, calibration data is correct and MAP AXIS is correct!
Ok - so the ecu offline problem with showing half values is only present in config file, not in logfile.
Saving a config file from this logfile an loading to VEMSTune (ECU still offline) --> all values shown half again!! error
Next issue
Connecting ECU -- ECU now online
MAP Range Unit -- setting from normal (<510) to double (>510)
Table kPa Unit -- setting to 4
Restarting VEMSTune
MAP Sensor Range (slope) -- trying to set it to 780 --> --> getting error message "Value out of range"
maximum in calibration is 510 - should be 1020
AND!
All Values for MAP in menus and table AXIS are half value, max is 255 now??? -- double error now! ECU still online!
These issues must be something with the 8 bit system. FF is the highest possible value in config file and so it has to be double or x4 to get values up to 510 or 1020.
Any solution?? Thanks...
But I think there msut be an calculation error in the software.
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What's the URL to your VEMS Sharing Center report?
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I run few cars with 7bar map sensor without problem, firmware 1.2.27, 1.2.10 and etc ...
vemstune 1.5.29 2014-11-06 with updated ini files.
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I run few cars with 7bar map sensor without problem, firmware 1.2.27, 1.2.10 and etc ...
vemstune 1.5.29 2014-11-06 with updated ini files.
nice to hear that... but do you run them above 510 kPa?? The 700kPa sensor works fine but I can not set any table or limit above 510kPa
what are your calibration settings?
780
double (>510)
2
or
780
double (>510)
4
??
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Hello Black,
Running above 510 kpa is no problem at all, but currently choosing a "Table kPa Unit = 4" is not supported; This also highlighted in the dialog in red letters "select 1 or 2". The ecu will however provide the same linear map multiplication of the last cell (in your case likely 510) times actual map (even when above 510kpa).
We are working on making the very high boost "Table kPa Unit = 4" mode available shortly; but i requires both firmware/VemsTune code and configuration updates.
Best regards, Dave
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Hello Black,
Running above 510 kpa is no problem at all, but currently choosing a "Table kPa Unit = 4" is not supported; This also highlighted in the dialog in red letters "select 1 or 2". The ecu will however provide the same linear map multiplication of the last cell (in your case likely 510) times actual map (even when above 510kpa).
We are working on making the very high boost "Table kPa Unit = 4" mode available shortly; but i requires both firmware/VemsTune code and configuration updates.
Best regards, Dave
Hi Dave, thanks for fast reply... I can confirm all you wrote above... its exactly what I found out.
But how can I handle the fuelcut problem.
Max value for overboost fuelcut in menu (RevLimit/overrun/safety) is 510... we running over 550kPA (this was with the 400kPa sensor - so no problems there because ECU did not see pressure above 416kPa)
But now, the ECU will see pressure up to 700kPa. So the most interesting question now is - can I disable the fuelcut function where max is 510???
regards
PS
I must have a deep look trough the other menus but I think the 510 limit will be an issue in other menus too
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Hello Black,
Running above 510 kpa is no problem at all, but currently choosing a "Table kPa Unit = 4" is not supported; This also highlighted in the dialog in red letters "select 1 or 2". The ecu will however provide the same linear map multiplication of the last cell (in your case likely 510) times actual map (even when above 510kpa).
We are working on making the very high boost "Table kPa Unit = 4" mode available shortly; but i requires both firmware/VemsTune code and configuration updates.
Best regards, Dave
maybe it will get some more cells in ignition table?
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Yes the same limit applies to all the map related settings in all dialogs and tables; as a quick fix (until we are able to roll out the firmware/Vemstune Software and Ini updates) you could cheat the map sensor calibration for now for example calibrate it as a 350 kpa sensor (half range of the 700kpa) using Map Range Unit = Normal (<510 kPa) and half all the map columns in your tables and dialogs and double the req_fuel number. This will provide you with no tuning problems, you just have to remember that map is actually map * 2 (so 700 will read as 350 on the gauge).
Regarding the more cells in ignition table, there is no plan (and generally no reason) to implement this; even the most tricky engines we have seen tend to have ignition tables with 2-3 break points in the ignition curve on rpm axis and even less in the map/tps/load axis, keep in mind that we provide full matrix interpolation between all cells everywhere.
Best regards, Dave
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Thanks for fast reply... regards... :)
PS + when developing new code, please dont forget the strange behaviour of VEMSTune in calibration.
ECU online - all values right, max 510
ECU offline - all values are shown half, max 255
Logfile - all values shown right
ECU offline - no way to set double (max is 510 (1020 when ecu online))
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We are also looking into that, but the transition in config resolution will always be a bit tricky as all map related variables will be recalculated by VT and might need review/adjustment because of the mismatch between previous and current config resolution.
Best regards, Dave
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Yes the same limit applies to all the map related settings in all dialogs and tables; as a quick fix (until we are able to roll out the firmware/Vemstune Software and Ini updates) you could cheat the map sensor calibration for now for example calibrate it as a 350 kpa sensor (half range of the 700kpa) using Map Range Unit = Normal (<510 kPa) and half all the map columns in your tables and dialogs and double the req_fuel number. This will provide you with no tuning problems, you just have to remember that map is actually map * 2 (so 700 will read as 350 on the gauge).
Regarding the more cells in ignition table, there is no plan (and generally no reason) to implement this; even the most tricky engines we have seen tend to have ignition tables with 2-3 break points in the ignition curve on rpm axis and even less in the map/tps/load axis, keep in mind that we provide full matrix interpolation between all cells everywhere.
Best regards, Dave
I understand this, but it is real pain to map when you are reving it 9500rpm and 3 bar boost :D at least same size as ve table ;) it would be perfect
(https://scontent-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10329212_944872528865378_2530546638630941504_n.jpg?oh=c9b00ba51f6754de9f97f43ca85a5ffc&oe=558B70F4)
(http://5https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10978663_944872495532048_2515313013784131239_n.jpg?oh=344360e4e8d383afac93d56a7fef56c6&oe=55829D8C&__gda__=1438372657_370ede7c6cbbd81721f7891c65551a5b)
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http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges 1.2.32 FTW!!!! some really nice upgrades + 700kpa map support
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http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges 1.2.32 FTW!!!! some really nice upgrades + 700kpa map support
Anytrim is getting some love. That looks wonderful!
Where can I put in a further request for Anytrim? It is a simple one: can we please have an Anytrim output to adjust Idle RefDC? I have been running VEMS on an Audi UrS6 for a couple of years. The stock ECU has an input from the climate control module telling it when the A/C compressor is on. I know I can use it with a table switch but since the only adjustment needed is to idle it seems a lot of work. So far I've just been solving it with idle targets that are always high enough for air conditioning and then using the integral action to dial it back. If it is difficult to add this feature don't worry about it, I'm just trying to get as close to OEM behavior as possible.
Thank you. The firmware upgrades over the last year have been really great. Knock control for instance is fantastic.
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Hello S6onVems,
Idle RefDC increase on AC input has been requested before and we will implement it as extension of the idle control function, the anytrim addition (2 extra channels) / higher than 510kPa in all kPa axises and config variables was quite intrusive, this change should be quite simple.
Best regards, Dave
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Hello S6onVems,
Idle RefDC increase on AC input has been requested before and we will implement it as extension of the idle control function, the anytrim addition (2 extra channels) / higher than 510kPa in all kPa axises and config variables was quite intrusive, this change should be quite simple.
Best regards, Dave
Hi
My first post on this forum.
Sounds greate that you are planning to implement the functionality of increase of RefDC on AC input, l'm just curious of when you plan to do this?
Regards
Hans
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http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges 1.2.32 FTW!!!! some really nice upgrades + 700kpa map support
nice... I will try this soon...
by the way the workaround works too
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Hi
My first post on this forum.
Sounds greate that you are planning to implement the functionality of increase of RefDC on AC input, l'm just curious of when you plan to do this?
Regards
Hans
Hello Hans,
Already implemented and tested, should be available on dev server later tonight, take care: experimental, only for testing.
Best regards, Dave
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Hi
My first post on this forum.
Sounds greate that you are planning to implement the functionality of increase of RefDC on AC input, l'm just curious of when you plan to do this?
Regards
Hans
Hello Hans,
Already implemented and tested, should be available on dev server later tonight, take care: experimental, only for testing.
Best regards, Dave
anyway, I have noticed one thing, for bmw s54, vanos +itb + turbo, when using alpha-n + boost compensation cam position table can be defined only by tps
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Hello S6onVems,
Idle RefDC increase on AC input has been requested before and we will implement it as extension of the idle control function, the anytrim addition (2 extra channels) / higher than 510kPa in all kPa axises and config variables was quite intrusive, this change should be quite simple.
Best regards, Dave
Sweet!
This is probably not the correct thread for this, but you're here so I'm asking: how about allowing negative enrichment values for TPS-based enrichment? It is clear that the dTPS is calculated even when it is negative, as it shows up on logs that way. However you cannot enter anything below 0 in the dTPS enrichment curve. It would be neat if there could be a couple more points in the curve to allow for a short enlean event after a throttle lift. Right now watching Lambda it goes rich right after you let up on the throttle, unless you let off all the way and a fuelcut event starts. It almost certainly is just clearing the extra fuel from the ports, but it would be handy to be able to compensate for that. Of course this is another possibility for people to make mistakes so it might need a config warning! (Other idea: 'idle integral disabled above x wheelspeed' instead of just when car is stopped. I've been thinking about these for a while...)
Thank you.
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anyway, I have noticed one thing, for bmw s54, vanos +itb + turbo, when using alpha-n + boost compensation cam position table can be defined only by tps
Correct cam target tables use the same y-axis as VE table.
Best regards, Dave
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yes, but when fuel map is based on tps, even with boost correction maximum value is 100 in cam table =100%tps
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I tried to install the new Firmware 1.2.32 but Firmware Web Tool in my VEMSTune only shows up to Version 1.2.31 available?
I downloaded the file by Hand (1.2.32.zip) but VEMS Firmware Wizard only shows 1.2.31
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you have to put it in fw directory as zip file or something
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I tried to install the new Firmware 1.2.32 but Firmware Web Tool in my VEMSTune only shows up to Version 1.2.31 available?
I downloaded the file by Hand (1.2.32.zip) but VEMS Firmware Wizard only shows 1.2.31
Please follow directions posted here: http://www.vemssupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,2410.msg23276.htm (or wait until we make the 1.2.32 available for the general public, usually a few weeks after development in that version has stopped),
Best regards, Dave
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yes, but when fuel map is based on tps, even with boost correction maximum value is 100 in cam table =100%tps
We can think about making this selectable in the future.
Best regards, Dave
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I tried to install the new Firmware 1.2.32 but Firmware Web Tool in my VEMSTune only shows up to Version 1.2.31 available?
I downloaded the file by Hand (1.2.32.zip) but VEMS Firmware Wizard only shows 1.2.31
Please follow directions posted here: http://www.vemssupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,2410.msg23276.htm (or wait until we make the 1.2.32 available for the general public, usually a few weeks after development in that version has stopped),
Best regards, Dave
Thanks... I forgot to use the (Re)Install Firmware button...
UPDATE
Firmware installed successfully... now I have to test a lot :D
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yes, but when fuel map is based on tps, even with boost correction maximum value is 100 in cam table =100%tps
We can think about making this selectable in the future.
Best regards, Dave
and bigger ignition table, at least to the top
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https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11149295_846833938685756_326588633373990669_n.jpg?oh=cfecc529f111315d7a85c27867e4287e&oe=55AF87F4&__gda__=1437134191_d2821407f6d07e478f83deadc9db09b5
this one wants it ;)
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https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11149295_846833938685756_326588633373990669_n.jpg?oh=cfecc529f111315d7a85c27867e4287e&oe=55AF87F4&__gda__=1437134191_d2821407f6d07e478f83deadc9db09b5
this one wants it ;)
Seems like a nice project, good stuff!
Best regards, Dave
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https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11149295_846833938685756_326588633373990669_n.jpg?oh=cfecc529f111315d7a85c27867e4287e&oe=55AF87F4&__gda__=1437134191_d2821407f6d07e478f83deadc9db09b5
this one wants it ;)
Seems like a nice project, good stuff!
Best regards, Dave
it runs already, 750 hp 980nm @1.7 bar, intake needs some modifications, it should mane more power with same boost :) but it would be really nice to have bigger ignition table, it's really hard to map that type of cars with that small table, on this one i have to fit tps ignition + boost ignition, that's pretty hard if I want to run it lets say 2.5 bar :)
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If you review your ignition table you will probably find that alot of it is redundant and you can increase resolution where you need it.
The axis point don't all have to have equal spacing of KPA or RPM between them.