Hi everybody
I am Jean-Noël from France (so excuse me for my poor English).
I planned to fit a VEMS ECU to my Peugeot 106 XSI. I bought it few months ago. I built it into a Magneti Marelli casing to make it plug and play on my car.
Here is my Wiki page (not much to read for now...) : http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FJeanno (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FJeanno)
My setup :
The engine:
TU5J2
1600cc, 8 valves
Ported head and 270° AAC
1-3-4-2 firing order
Wasted spark
149cc injectors (will be soon replaced with 210cc)
The ECU :
v3.3 board
v1.1.27 firmware
individual injector firing
Wideband
EGT
VR trigger
I have almost finished the hardware part of the work and I am now trying to start the car.
I tried to make it fire this week but with no success...
Here is my config :
http://www.vems.hu/files/Jeanno/v3.3_27-NOV-2009_1-1-27.vemscfg (http://www.vems.hu/files/Jeanno/v3.3_27-NOV-2009_1-1-27.vemscfg)
And there is a little document I made when I tried to understand the firing and injection sequence :
http://www.vems.hu/files/Jeanno/cycle.jpg (http://www.vems.hu/files/Jeanno/cycle.jpg)
(http://www.vems.hu/files/Jeanno/cycle.jpg)
It may be useful for someone. (sorry for the few French words...)
Here are logs :
http://www.vems.hu/files/Jeanno/logs/logs_22-NOV-2009.zip (http://www.vems.hu/files/Jeanno/logs/logs_22-NOV-2009.zip)
Unfortunately I am not very good at interpreting these for now.
All my hardware things seem to work. I checked ignition with a timing light. So I don't understand why it is not firing.
I tried to start without after start enrichment increasing req_fuel from 10ms to 17.2 ms in steps of .5 ms without success...
I have a question about the stepper. Maybe it is stupid but I did not found the answer neither in the wiki nor on the forum : Should it fully extend or fully retract on power up ? (mine fully retract...)
And a question about VemsTune : When I use the latest release and with my 1.1.27 firmware, I can't see Spark angle on the gauge (it shows 0.0). Why ?
great sequence draw!
Thanks. I would be glad if this could be useful for someone.
Anyone can answer my question about stepper ?
I changed "Iac step sequence" form 201 to 216 to make my stepper close on Genboard startup.
it seems to work since the car has started for the first time yesrerday afternoon.
Here is the log :
http://www.vems.hu/files/Jeanno/logs/01-DEC-2009/datalog1.xls (http://www.vems.hu/files/Jeanno/logs/01-DEC-2009/datalog1.xls)
I am very proud because it is the first ECU I set-up.
By cons despite all the readings I have done, any advice would be welcome on the operation to do.
For example at that point EGO correction is active. I guess I have to disable this function to tune ?
I have answered myself to my first question : the IAC stepper retracts when the ECU is powered-up. ;)
My second question was about VemsTune : I wondered why I couldn't see the Spark Angle. I was using VemsTune-2009-11-18. I then tested VemsTune-2009-10-21 but had the same problem. Then I came to VemsTune-2009-10-02 and guess what? It works ! But I don't know why...
I also saw that I had a boost table with latest VemsTune releases that I can't see with VemsTune-2009-10-02. Is it a problem ? (I did not changed my config when changing VemsTune version.) :-[
Hello!
Nice to see that more Peugeot drivers use the Vems.
I use an Vems PnP unit from Dp Engineering since 2 years now in my Saxo 1,6 16v.
I could change your maps a bit along my experience with the vems.
Regards!
Sebastian
I started the car with maps based on NLD setup that can be found on the wiki here :
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FRallyeNLD%2FTables (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FRallyeNLD%2FTables)
His car has the same motor as my car. The biggest difference is that I have a Catcams 270° AAC (road/sport working well in 3500-7000rpm range).
The over difference between our to configs is the trigger timing. He set it to 120° BTDC and I set it to 114° (information I took in a repair manual and that I verified during cranking with a timing light) so I subtracted 5° to his table.
Here are the maps the car started with (see log in previous post) :
(http://www.vems.hu/files/Jeanno/tables_config_01-DEC-2009.png)
Hi,
I think the trigger settings are a bit strange... have a look at my current allday drive setup from my 16v.
I think all TU engines work with tha same/ or nearly the same trigger setup if you use the OEM parts.
My trigger settings are from Dp Engineering and made for the PnP 1,6 16v Setup, so they should be fine ;)
http://www.file-upload.net/download-2056882/v3.3_n001616-2009.11.29-12.06.15.vemscfg.html
here are the maps:
(http://www.bilderhost.com/images/pc0bb31qsbq1gihydzy.jpg)
Regards!
Sebastian
Thanks for sharing your settings. :)
It seems that DP found that trigger is at 118°BTDC (8 teeth * 6° + 70.0°) and I found it to be at 114°BTDC (10 teeth * 6° + 54.0°). I can correct that. My Crank min. period is to high, I will reduce it, but other parameters are the same (since we don't use filtering).
What is your engine setup ?
Are you using the stepper for iddle ?
Quote from: jeanno on December 05, 2009, 02:07:46 AM
Thanks for sharing your settings. :)
It seems that DP found that trigger is at 118°BTDC (8 teeth * 6° + 70.0°) and I found it to be at 114°BTDC (10 teeth * 6° + 54.0°). I can correct that. My Crank min. period is to high, I will reduce it, but other parameters are the same (since we don't use filtering).
What is your engine setup ?
Are you using the stepper for iddle ?
That's the Setup for my second engine (for allday-driving and as replacement) so its an TU5J4 engine with:
- headwork
- standart cams
- standart bottom end
- modified c2 r2 exhaust manifold with self-made group a exhaust
- c2 vts inlet manifold with 4 x 45 mm throttle bodies (between the 2 parts of the inlet stealth look :D )
- Vems PnP with some special features and LCD
some video-stuff : http://www.youtube.com/user/saxofurio16v
I will start an project thread here shortly to give some more information ;)
I think you will be happy with the other trigger settings and an spark map that is similar to mine...
But normally the 8v engines need a bit more advance for best performance so you can tune the map forward to
about 32° at highest rpm and highest load ;)
Yes I'm using a stepper setup but with the throttle boddies it has not that big effect, but on single throttle body the stepper is necessary
to get smooth idle especially for cold temperatures, if you want me to do it, I can send you screen shots of my stepper settings from single throttle body mode, they could be a good starting point for you.
Regards!
Sebastian
Quote from: saxo_furio16v on December 05, 2009, 03:33:22 AM
I will start an project thread here shortly to give some more information ;)
I think you will be happy with the other trigger settings and an spark map that is similar to mine...
But normally the 8v engines need a bit more advance for best performance so you can tune the map forward to
about 32° at highest rpm and highest load ;)
I will stick to the table made by NLD for the moment until I make the engine running fine.
Quote from: saxo_furio16v on December 05, 2009, 03:33:22 AM
If you want me to do it, I can send you screen shots of my stepper settings from single throttle body mode, they could be a good starting point for you.
It would be nice.
Regards,
Jean-Noël
Quote from: jeanno on December 05, 2009, 04:16:27 AM
I will stick to the table made by NLD for the moment until I make the engine running fine.
I think the spark map/trigger setting are a problem when you want a smooth running engine, so have a try with the DP settings and my map 8)
I will see if I can get something for you (stepper settings)
I am back with my little car.
Due to a crash on track this year, I have totally rebuilt the engine (including crankshaft lightening and balancing) and fitted it in a "new" 1992 106. :D
Doing this, I have made a new harness for the VEMS. It is now time to map it.
I successfully started the car using the latest firmware (1.1.81). Then I tried to achieve a decent iddle. The best vacuum I obtained is 65kpa probably due to the camshaft. Is it low enough to map the car using Speed Density or should I go for Alpha-N ? (I use stock MAP sensor with a range of 8-103kpa)
If going for alpha N, would the MAP sensor be of any use with a normally aspirated car ?
65 kPa, at what idle rpm?
How much ignition timing at idle?
Any plans for cam sync? It can improve engine response and vacuum at low load when you can tune the injection end angle.
The MAP sensor would be useful still with Alpha-N, you can use it for the spark table, barometric correction, etc..
I would tune it with Speed-Density, no problems at all. At higher rpm it has plenty of range and no real surprises in the VE table.
Thanks for your answer.
The engine is idling at about 1000rpm (not yet very stable).
Today I started to MAP VE in speed density. The maximum vacuum level is about 20kpa when I release throttle.
The car is running well if we take into account that this is my first tuner.
Next step : I will bring it to a local professionnal on a dyno to fine tune it.
Last week the car has been mapped quickly for max performance.
Today i tuned idle with good results.
Here is the config file :
http://www.2shared.com/file/w-QFx-3L/v33_n001747-A-20101017-165526.html (http://www.2shared.com/file/w-QFx-3L/v33_n001747-A-20101017-165526.html)
Next step is to install VEMS ROUND AIM and a config switch in the car.
Then i will use the current map as a safe map and tune on the second config set for fuel saving with ego correction enabled
I made some tuning mainly on VE map since last post.
The car is running well but two points can be improved :
I have to fine tune VE table (and probably lambda table) under 3000rpm, mainly around 2000 and 2700 rpm and 60-65kpa (iddle vacuum level) where the car runs rough.
The second point is cold starting in cold weather. With air temperature over 10°C, the engine starts on first attempt when cold or warm.
Winter is arrived in France and with the snow, the temperatures came down. Yesterday morning I had to try many time (about 10 attempts) to start the engine. This morning I made a log of this. It took 4 attemps to start.
Here is the log :
http://www.2shared.com/file/t-6jT7b7/v33_n001747-20101202-073008.html (http://www.2shared.com/file/t-6jT7b7/v33_n001747-20101202-073008.html)
What would you suggest to modify first ? Cranking cold enrichment ? Afterstart enrichment ? Probably cranking enrichment first as the engine idle is nice once started.
Any advise on first point is also welcome.
Thanks
Definately cold-crank, I have a graph somewhere on here that shows how cold fuel requirements are almost exponential as the temperature drops.
Until now your cold cranking values will be a complete guess really.
Thanks Rob for your advise.
I will start with rising cold cranking enrichment.
Then I may also rise afterstart enrichment but make it shorter (less cycles).
I also made a log of cold start this morning.
http://www.2shared.com/file/dXOPt2PK/v33_n001747-20101203-073308.html (http://www.2shared.com/file/dXOPt2PK/v33_n001747-20101203-073308.html)
It took 4 attempts to start again but this time I managed to resist the temptation to play with throttle. :D
Becareful to preserve the cold start settings that you have - as when the cold weather goes you may find that you have flooding issues.
I will be careful.
I managed to store successive version of my settings for now.
Here are some pictures of my car and its engine to illustrate this post a bit.
The fully rebuilt 210000+ km engine :
(http://medias.106xsi.net/d/135157-2/moteur2.JPG)
(http://medias.106xsi.net/d/135160-2/moteur3.JPG)
(http://medias.106xsi.net/d/135163-2/moteur4.JPG)
(http://medias.106xsi.net/d/135338-2/mot1.JPG)
(http://medias.106xsi.net/d/135344-2/mot3.JPG)
The lightened and balanced crankshaft :
(http://medias.106xsi.net/d/135049-2/Vilebrequin.JPG)
The Genboard in a "custm" case :
(http://medias.106xsi.net/d/135775-2/calculateur.JPG)
The 18 years old car :
(http://medias.106xsi.net/d/135805-2/avant_rem.JPG)
(http://medias.106xsi.net/d/135808-2/arriere_rem.JPG)
Since few days I have a strange behaviour of the ECU : When I power up the unit, the fuel pump primes and stop and then primes again and stop and so on forever.
Can someone explain this ? Bad wiring/grounding ?
Here is a log:
http://www.2shared.com/file/1T-V6dB-/v33_n001747-20101221-185527_CL.html (http://www.2shared.com/file/1T-V6dB-/v33_n001747-20101221-185527_CL.html)
Apart from this "problem", the car runs fine.
If you check the rpm signal, there is probably a blip there every time the pump turns on (fuel pump relay). I'm guessing you use a VR/inductive sensor on the primary trigger input, a slight pull-up on the trigger input to 5 Volts (try 10k-20kOhm) externally can be tested to see if it removes the issue.
Indeed, the problem can be bad grounding - but can be hard to fix sometimes.
I will try a pull-up resistor.
Thanks!
Do you have a link for your injectors 220cc please