i am looking for the primary trigger settings for a VAG 60-2 oem wheel. using oem Vr sensor. from the aba.
TDC after the trig= 79
#of teeth = 58
first trig = 0
next trig = 30
angular width = 6
my thoughts are i have wrong polarity or wrong trigger settings..
I know another VEMS user successfully using the following settings on an ABA 16v:
TDC after the trig= 60.0
#of teeth = 58
first trig = 4
next trig = 30
angular width = 6
I will hopefully confirm these settings on my ABA this weekend. Maybe another forum member can confirm these settings. Lugnuts?
set 4th tooth as trigger tooth
tdc after trig 60
next 30
lock ignition
check with strobe
fine tune angle (tdc after trig) to have same readings from strobe light and vemstune
you need 5 mins for correct settings :)
with this picture there are 13 teeth from missing to TDC
360/60 teeth = 6 degrees per tooth. = 79 degrees after the trig?
this looks right to me? am i wrong here?
http://www.box.net/shared/4blm0kcb92
why use first trigger tooth of 4 and not 0.. is tooth 0 not the first tooth after the missing?
HERE ARE THE CORRECT SETTINGS FOR VAG 60-2
I've put on the TDC after trigger 79°=> checked with a digital strobe light @ cyl 1 timing pouley side.
First trigger tooth :0
Next trigger tooth (distance):30
Angular width:6°
Use 4th tooth like i said you, and don't worry...
can you explain why?
4th tooth is only 54 deg and tooth 0 is 79.. i prefer the higher value for timing purpose.
next trigger tooth is 30 teeth after, so it's 34th if you use 4th as first trigger tooth.
It's sort of a Bosch standard to have the first trigger tooth 60 deg before TDC, I guess that's why.
It doesn't matter much with the current firmware, it fires the spark accurately regardless of the distance to TDC.
Let's stop there.
You have problem with trigger errors. First thing you should provide is firmware info, then a triggerlog.
i got it sorted out with my errors.. however i was curious why some have said you tooth 4 instead of 0.
tdc is 90 degrees from the missing so using 0 or 4 wouldnt make tdc 60 degrees away
anyone else have an idea why to use tooth 4 rather then 0
i didnt know if using tooth 4 moves the trigger away from the missing so if you have camsync they do not race together.
but it seems the older firmware used to not like tooth 0 and gave issues.. now it doesn't matter what trigger tooth you use..
just strobe to find the tdc degree from that trgger.
Quote from: boostd audi on June 06, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
i didnt know if using tooth 4 moves the trigger away from the missing so if you have camsync they do not race together.
The cam sync only races with the missing teeth, nothing else matters.
well it seems i get a missing tooth once every couple revolution.. and im getting trig error again
here is the trigger log
http://www.box.net/shared/6slej8pi6l
and here is csv
http://www.box.net/shared/qnr19httyn
You can't make a reliable triggerlog with 60-2 with the engine running, too many events to send them all over the serialport, only cranking works and maybe a looow idle.
that was cranking.. it did not start.
Ah hmm .. didn't look properly at the time scale then.
Seems like you get some noise in the signal. What happens if you disable the ignition coils? (.. and all other current consumers)
If you can't find the reason there you might need to use a stronger pull-up towards +5V, I think the standard is 18kOhm but you might need a stronger one.
Measure Ohm across the signal+ground of your trigger sensor, what does it say? 200-300 Ohm, or 900-1000 Ohm?
The problem might go away when the engine is running, as the trigger signal from inductive sensors gets stronger with increased speed.
Didn't really catch what the problem was, did you have your engine running previously or trying to get it started ?
i measured signal to ground on sensor and it is about 100ohm
here is a new trigger log. its a little more clear.
http://www.box.net/shared/7u9vc7151c
this is a new setup i am trying to get running.. i got it started but it would idle poorly and fall on its face when you rev it bc of trigger errors (too mnay /too little)
Quote from: boostd audi on June 08, 2011, 11:17:04 PM
i measured signal to ground and i get about 200 but it keeps climbing.. went to almost 500
Is this measured with a disconnected sensor, directly in the connector on the signal and ground pin?
What voltage do you measure in the connector going to the ECU, with the sensor disconnected, between signal and ground pin?
yes i measured with disconnected sensor..
i get about 3.05 volts on the ecu side of connector
and i am testing good ohm under 100 on the disconected sensor end.. had it on the wrong setting above..
i check both twice and got same readings.
double checked my wiring and ohm test on my wiring is good as well from ecu pin to sensor connector
The voltage created by the inductive trigger sensor will overcome any small noise that can appear.
Voltage is greater with increased trigger wheel speed.
i am going to double check my tdc degree today hopefully i am a degree or two off and that is causing my idle error
also, does my bosch type vr sensor shielding get ground to engine block near sensor like robs user guide says,
or do i connect the shield to the ground from pin 26 so its connected to ecu like the wiki manual says..
right now shielding is grounded on block.. should i try it to pin 26.. i wouldnt think it matters much but i figure i would check
Connect the shield at the ECU, that is how it's done in most (if not all) Bosch Motronic applications I've seen.
Quote from: boostd audi on June 09, 2011, 01:43:36 PM
i am going to double check my tdc degree today hopefully i am a degree or two off and that is causing my idle error
That is not very likely to cause an error, that's like changing from 10 to 15 degrees idle timing, idle speed will go up slightly and that's it.
Your problem is electrical.
the first trigger log i posted the coils were connected so i got noise from them
this trigger log is with coils disconnected.. to me it looks identicle to the two other trigger logs i have found from searching wiki and forum for other VAG 60-2..
do you still think i have noise based on this trigger log
http://www.box.net/shared/7u9vc7151c
It's definatly noise, your latest log looks perfect so your noise is induced by the ignition system.
It's not hard to spot - extra trigger teeth appear with strange intervals.
If you upgrade to latest firmware and VemsTune you can get more information from the log and see the ignition firing for each coil.
Did you fix the trigger wire shield?
Some coils have a shield that needs proper grounding. Wasted spark coils are usually not built that way.
In OEM harnesses where the ECU has built-in igniters the wires for grounding the coils are shielded, I don't think that will help here.
Is the engine properly grounded? I recommend at least two places, one at the starter and the other near the generator.
It could be a lot of things, you have to try a few before you crack this. Swapping coils and spark plug wires would be a good start.
Try the Bosch coil, I once had a customer with a Audi 3B engine and used (ebay) 034 passive coils, those went into the trash bin after having massive issues with noise. The VAG 60-2 crank seal trigger with Hall sensor was used on that engine, it still caused problems with the signal. Not saying 034 coils are bad, just be critical about the condition of everything unknown.
Yes there was another post on here where someone said they'd grounded the shield at both sensor and ECU ends, which effectively removes the grounding.
yes i did move shield ground back to ecu ground, before testing yesterday..
034 coils have no shield..
the engine has TWO 8 gauge thick ground straps.. one at the starter and one from the block near altinator running to the chasie where batter neg meets chasie so the engine is grounded good.
today i will do some more testing. i only had 3 spark plug wires last night so i will swap coil today and try.
if you can think of other ideas to change or try to solve the noise i would appreciate it.
i will also take a new tirgger log today since fw 1.1.92 shows spark events..
i will report back in an hour or so.. thank you for the help
Try adding a 10K or 18KOhm pull-up towards +5V (pin 28) on the trigger signal pin.
It's not likely that will cure the problem, but it's easy to try.
Quote from: boostd audi on June 13, 2011, 05:32:27 AMthe shield in the sensor ground to pin 26 sensor grounds.
The what?
Fix the shield, OEM-style.
Quote from: mattias on June 13, 2011, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: boostd audi on June 13, 2011, 05:32:27 AMthe shield in the vr sensor run to pin 26 sensor grounds.
The what?
Fix the shield, OEM-style.
I think you miss understood me.. my shielding is grounded properly
The shielding for the vr sensor is attached to the ground wire on the connector side, then both ground and shield run to pin 26 ecu ground..
Is this not correct?
I have some cars with passive 034 coils. These are noisy!
My praxis is feed coils directly from ignition switch, but ECU, injectors - from battery trough main relay.
Seems capacitor at each coil also dissolves problem. Some manufacturers do so: cap between coil and chassis. Somewhat like 2uF 50V.