I am a new to using standalone systems so forgive me, but I have two problems. The motor is a Audi AAN (2.2L 20vt).
Problem 1. I am receiving a less primary trigger error. Here is a trigger log, but I am not quite sure on how to read or what to make of it.
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv9/durrmcdanks/triggerlog2.png)
Problem 2. I have a problem regarding my MAT sensor readings. I downloaded the patches for the CLT and MAT sensors. The patch for the CLT worked great but every time I download the "audi plug and play" patch my MAT reads -40 C. Also, I tried downloading the 1.8t style patch and it sends the MAT reading to 64 C. I am not really sure what to make of this.
Any help is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
have you tried firmware patch upload?
and for good trigger log try to remove spark plugs, disconnect injectors and crank engine for about 10s, just check that laptop doesn't disconnects from ecu while cranking. you should get trigger log like this (http://s11.postimage.org/n8tke254v/trig_log.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/n8tke254v/)
Ok, I will get a better trigger log. I tried the Audi plug and play patch and the 1.8t patch. By the way these are the primary trigger settings I am using: http://www.vemssupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=1695.0
use 1.2.2 firmware, and use these trigger settings
(http://s17.postimage.org/h1w8ly5cb/Screenshot_from_2012_10_29_15_41_08.png) (http://postimage.org/image/h1w8ly5cb/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/kms4569vv/Screenshot_from_2012_10_29_15_41_34.png) (http://postimage.org/image/kms4569vv/)
Here is a trigger log with your settings:
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv9/durrmcdanks/triggerlog4.png)
How do you have only 10 teeth? Also I entered in for the trigger reference tooth table 0,8,6,4,2 but I am not sure that's right.
that's a 3 possible ways to start it, div by 3 =90 tooth div by 9 =30 tooth and div by 27 =10 tooth, your trigger log isn't perfect, but I think you can try to start yours car ;) just make sure you have good battery. try to crank it and will see how it works.
Unfortunately, it did not turn over. I am getting fuel and its sparking, but it's still saying primary trigger error. Here is a picture of my coil outputs and fueling table.
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv9/durrmcdanks/Capture.png)
sometimes you can ignore that error when cranking at low rpm, don't know how your spark outputs are wired. but if you got fuel and got spark, if you have correct spark order, it should start
try to use these settings, that were firing order on my friends p&p vems for aan
(http://s7.postimage.org/ypyjc7rbr/Screenshot_from_2012_11_02_13_46_36.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ypyjc7rbr/)
Alright, something must be out of order, but I thought the AAN fired 1,2,4,5,3 or at least that is how I have it for both the ignition and fueling orders. Also, you may be right about being able to ignore that primary trigger error because it only pops up at the very end of a cranking cycle and for a very short period, but I still have secondary trigger errors as well so that may be a problem. What's the firing order of that ignition output table you posted?
-Thanks for all the help so far
Hi
Upload a real .vemslog and triggerlogg while trying to start.
A log tells more than a thousand words ;)
Quote from: Kamuto on November 02, 2012, 11:46:10 AM
try to use these settings, that were firing order on my friends p&p vems for aan
(http://s7.postimage.org/ypyjc7rbr/Screenshot_from_2012_11_02_13_46_36.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ypyjc7rbr/)
these Ign Output Table is factory setup for a Vems PNP AAN Setup.
Is your Vems a PNP Box?
Quote from: audis2turbo on November 03, 2012, 11:14:20 AM
Quote from: Kamuto on November 02, 2012, 11:46:10 AM
try to use these settings, that were firing order on my friends p&p vems for aan
(http://s7.postimage.org/ypyjc7rbr/Screenshot_from_2012_11_02_13_46_36.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ypyjc7rbr/)
these Ign Output Table is factory setup for a Vems PNP AAN Setup.
Is your Vems a PNP Box?
Unfortunately, I went the cheaper route and decided not to do a PNP VEMS.
Quote from: Erikk on November 03, 2012, 08:53:17 AM
Hi
Upload a real .vemslog and triggerlogg while trying to start.
A log tells more than a thousand words ;)
Reply number #5 is the trigger log with those settings
just write from which output which coil are wired.
I tired cranking it more today and its seems really close to turning over but something is just not working. I think my secondary trigger settings may be wrong.
Here is my wiring set up and one more triggerlog (order is firing first to last):
Ignition:
G/W EC18-11 Stepper-D Power output stage for ignition, cylinder #1
V/BK EC18-05 Stepper-C Power output stage for ignition, cylinder #2
BK/Y EC18-10 Stepper-B Power output stage for ignition, cylinder #4
BK/ EC18-04 Stepper-A Power output stage for ignition, cylinder #5
BK/GY EC36-11 Ignch4 Power output stage for ignition, cylinder #3 (its bridged to the stepper drive thanks to Marc Swanson)
AAN ECU pins corresponding to firing order: 1,2,20,21,23
Fueling:
W/V EC36-20 INJ-D Fuel injector #1 control (switched 0V)
W/BR EC36-08 INJ-C Fuel injector #2 control (switched 0V)
Y/G EC36-19 INJ-B Fuel injector #4 control (switched 0V)
W/BL EC36-07 INJ-A Fuel injector #5 control (switched 0V)
Y/BL EC36-09 INJ-E Fuel injector #3 control (switched 0V)
AAN ECU pins corresponding to firing order: 36, 17, 35, 16, 34
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv9/durrmcdanks/triggerlog11-4-12.png)
spark outputs are correct in my picture, it suits your wiring. what looks spark plugs after cranking? wet or dry? and upload real config file.
Here is some friendly advice and questions :
What what trigger input configuration was your ECU ordered? Does it use all three stock sensors?
I have no idea what "bridged to stepper driver" means, what did Marc Swanson do? All the stepper outputs you listed are not used as power outputs, they are logic outputs to drive active coils or the stock Bosch ignition modules. That means the ignition output 4 has been converted to a logic output, and has nothing to do with "stepper output bridging" - whatever that means.
As Erik said, post a real vemslog (and triggerlog), not just pictures and words. There is a "submit error report" function built-in to VemsTune that does exactly what you need, see Help menu.
Use a strobe light, and never ever give power to the injectors when you are not sure the engine is not firing the ignition right. It will only cause problems. Fouled plugs and gas in the sump are not what you need.
Here is a report link to my trigger log: http://vems.hu/vemstune/bugreports/reports.php?cmd=view&key=j6in0N (http://vems.hu/vemstune/bugreports/reports.php?cmd=view&key=j6in0N)
I will get a vemslog soon of the secondary trigger.
Marc Swanson: "since you are using the stepper for ignition that means you need TTL drive for the coil. your ecu would need to be configured so that channel 4 is bridged for TTL drive. they dont always do that by default."
for start, use 1.2.2 fw not 1.2.6 1.2.2 were special made for auditrigger system. second, how your triger inputs are wired?
AAN Color VEMS Sensor
49 GY/GY EC36-27 Prim. Trigger Engine speed sensor 135 cranktooth D
8 GY/R EC36-13 Sec. Trigger Hall effect sensor (signal wire from G40 pin #2)
Quote from: Durr McDanks on November 08, 2012, 12:11:58 AM
AAN Color VEMS Sensor
49 GY/GY EC36-27 Prim. Trigger Engine speed sensor 135 cranktooth D
8 GY/R EC36-13 Sec. Trigger Hall effect sensor (signal wire from G40 pin #2)
and where is connected aan 47 pin? :)
I don't have the crank shaft position sensor hooked up. Does that make a huge difference? I will hook it up.
Yes. You use it as camsync, and use the hallsensor on the cam to mask it every-other revolution. That way you get a solid camsync. Your way is not OK.
If you switch to VAG 60-2 primary trigger, then you can use the hallsender as camsync.
Question: In order to use Audi's 3 sensor style trigger I would need this to get the crank sensor dialed in?
http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/hall-p-162.html
Yes and no, you need a third trigger input if you have the stock Audi trigger. If the ECU was not ordered with one then you need to get that fixed.
Or better yet, get the 60-2 crank trigger instead which alleviates the need for the "third trigger" to let the cam sync mask out the single flywheel pin, and I assume ECU is already set up to handle a VR primary and Hall secondary trigger input.
Ok, back to business after a little hiatus. I have a third channel for triggering (pin 12 of EC-18) so I wired in the crank position sensor. Here is the weird thing, I received not one trigger error, but read no rpm with CPS plugged in. Unplugging the CPS, I then received trigger errors, but read an rpm. Any thoughts? I might just make my life easier and switch to the 60-2.
Quote from: Durr McDanks on December 03, 2012, 02:24:41 PM
Ok, back to business after a little hiatus. I have a third channel for triggering (pin 12 of EC-18) so I wired in the crank position sensor. Here is the weird thing, I received not one trigger error, but read no rpm with CPS plugged in. Unplugging the CPS, I then received trigger errors, but read an rpm. Any thoughts? I might just make my life easier and switch to the 60-2.
cps cam or crank sensor?
crank
Is there anything special I need to do with the secondary or primary trigger settings to accept the crank position sensor? I just bought a timing light to dial in everything.
Quote from: Durr McDanks on December 05, 2012, 04:02:36 PM
Is there anything special I need to do with the secondary or primary trigger settings to accept the crank position sensor? I just bought a timing light to dial in everything.
your aan cam sensor is under cam pulley or at the end of engine like distributor? you must make it so that crank pin will be in cam sensor window when rotating engine. if your cam sensor is like distributor maybe you need to turn it a little bit
I have an AAN not a 3b so no distributor which also means my cam sensor is under the cam pulley. What I am confused on is how do I activate this third trigger since there is no "third trigger settings" so to say.
Quote from: Durr McDanks on December 05, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
I have an AAN not a 3b so no distributor which also means my cam sensor is under the cam pulley. What I am confused on is how do I activate this third trigger since there is no "third trigger settings" so to say.
first aan had this one http://12v.org/urs/EarlyAANTunaCanCamPositionSensor.jpg yes there isn't third trigger, they just need to be aligned that ecu get signal from both sensors at the same time
Quote from: Kamuto on December 06, 2012, 12:03:21 AM
Quote from: Durr McDanks on December 05, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
I have an AAN not a 3b so no distributor which also means my cam sensor is under the cam pulley. What I am confused on is how do I activate this third trigger since there is no "third trigger settings" so to say.
first aan had this one http://12v.org/urs/EarlyAANTunaCanCamPositionSensor.jpg yes there isn't third trigger, they just need to be aligned that ecu get signal from both sensors at the same time
Never knew that! Always thought the AAN was always distributor-less. How would I go about aligning the two sensors thru the ECU?
If you still receiving one secondary trigger impulse per revolution, you have to check your Hall sender, wiring and ECU.
Try this: when you remove Hall sender connector, ECU should not see any secondary. If you connect Hall sender signal wire (middle pin) to ground, ECU should see secondary signal each revolution. If Hall sender connected, works and correctly aligned (in "distributor" case) ECU should see just one secondary trigger impulse per two revolutions.
If you remove plug from TDC VR sensor (front sensor), ECU should see only primary signal. No matter Hall is connected or no.
Any other behaviour means some defect.
Gints
Thank you, for that info. I talked to someone directly at VEMS and they told me that I would need to send in my ECU in order to get the AAN triggering system to work or like you guys mentioned get the 60-2 crank pulley. I will keep you guys updated and thanks for all the help!
While I am waiting on the new ECU I have to do a couple of things.
1. "VR crankhome 1 tooth input (EC18/12 or motronic pin); crankhome sensor wires need to be reversed" so all they want me to do is switch the sensor ground (not the shielding ground) and the sensor input wire of the CPS?
2. Before, I had Marc create a fifth ignition channel that was stepper, but I have been told that this isn't necessary as you can run that fifth channel in logic and the other four in stepper. "BTW, the Ignition option for your ECU is 6+2." Does this mean that for my last cylinder I just wire it to either EC 36-11,12?
3. My MAT is still reading wrong after the patches and I have a back up MAT and it read the same so it's not the sensor. Has anyone wired in a resistor to correct this or do people just synthesize their own table?
-Thank you, Jamie
Just lifting this topic, however my problems are not as serious.
I'm running the econoseal setup for aby/aan, and running ok on FW 1.1.97
I tried just for the fun of it to upgrade to a 1.2 version a while ago (not remember which one) and the firing was totally off, with same config. Dificult to start, and dangerously early & late firing.
I did not spend any time to figure this out, but is there any changes in the FW done for trigger setup, and if so, any guide to convert my config? I did verify the config after FW upload, had a few mishabs, but nothing related to the triggers. If not any input here from similar experiences i might give it a try again to spot the problem. But i also need a good reason to upgrade, perhaps knock sensing ???
What you mean with econoseal setup? You have third trigger enabled?
I doubt it. The original setup is from 2008. Econoseal audi PnP.
OK. Then you have to check: is Auditrigger Divby3 changed to DivbyN.
N still can be =3. (Normally =9) But both are different algorithms. And Divby3 is obsolete from 1.2.x.
Gints
Noted Glints, going to try this tonight.
I need to change the setup anyway as i'm going back to pure gas (no, or almost no E85 blended in)
No its the same when set to divider = 3. What has been changed here except this?
Perhaps this FW is made for never setup/wiring, you mentioned a 3'd trigger?
Don't knew. Normally it works.
May be post your triggerlog and config?