hello, maybe someone has working subaru 6-7 trigger file? I have tried one from vems configlet but it seems not working, I'm always getting less primary trigger error,
here is config, trigger log, and cranking log, it's in the folder other.
http://vems.hu/vemstune/sharingcenter/reports.php?cmd=view&key=J81Gai maybe someone will find reason why it's acting like that. thanks.
ok, got it working with 1.2.27 :)
ok, who had working subaru 6-7 and on which firmware you are running? thanks, I really need help :)
Hello Kamuto,
What seems to be you problem ? Let start with the basics to debug anything trigger related in your setup, please provide:
1) triggerlog of engine cranking 8-10 seconds without IGN and INJ fuse
2) vemslog of running engine or if not available because engine not running vemcfg will do
3) accurate problem description
Best regards, Dave
here it its, http://vems.hu/vemstune/sharingcenter/reports.php?cmd=view&key=J81Gai in the folder other there is 3 files, log of cranking, trigger log, and configuration file, I'm getting less primary trigger error, 6 pulses on crank, 7 on cam.
Hello Kamuto,
This sharing report contains files from 1.2.20 firmware, as i already answered on your other bugreport here: http://vems.hu/vemstune/sharingcenter/reports.php?cmd=view&key=bZaoec,
1.2.27 firmware is imperative for good operation on Subaru 6+7 trigger.
Could you redo your triggerlog/vemscfg and vemslog with 1.2.27/28 and post link, i will review and we'll work from there.
Best regards, Dave
Quote from: VEMS on August 23, 2014, 08:23:49 AM
Hello Kamuto,
This sharing report contains files from 1.2.20 firmware, as i already answered on your other bugreport here: http://vems.hu/vemstune/sharingcenter/reports.php?cmd=view&key=bZaoec,
1.2.27 firmware is imperative for good operation on Subaru 6+7 trigger.
Could you redo your triggerlog/vemscfg and vemslog with 1.2.27/28 and post link, i will review and we'll work from there.
Best regards, Dave
ok, lets go further, with 1.2.27 it works, 1.2.28 works too, but there is problems too. I'll get you a log file later. we were checking it on the road, and ignition advance was 20@wot, made it maybe 25@wot car loses sync, trows trigger error start backfiring, it's until you start car again. lowered ignition angle car runs great again.
Hello Kamuto,
Great info, thanks! After the requested files are supplied on 1.2.27+ (triggerlog + vemslog/vemscfg) i will review.
Best regards, Dave
I did also try to use 1.2.27 with this trigger and it does indeed not work ,
Trigger errors as soon as the revs rise with boost on
Reverted back and forth several times making adjustements to see if i could get the car running
Gave up and used Ole firmware were the car runs flawless
/skassa
which one is that old firmware?
1.1.96
Then it runs great :)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$T2eC16V,!%29!E9s2fB+D7BRi58Em3n!~~_1.JPG)
Hi Guys,
I am still awaiting the requested logfles as posted "on: August 23, 2014, 12:23:49 pm", i will review and investigate after seeing the files. Thanks!
Best regards, Dave
sorry
http://vems.hu/vemstune/bugreports/reports.php?cmd=view&key=7LIKmO this is it, in folder other, named stop, now it's working on different trigger
I have had some running on 1.2.11 without problems
But the new 1.2.27 does not work ,
It runs great on older firmware :)
i make pnp prints for the 98-00 model impreza , and the 1.1.96 that i installed on the latest just runs great , and i have made 10+ on the firmware , so thats why i installed so old firmware
/Skassa
maybe someone can post working trigger configuration for old firmware? trying to set up another one, and almost lost hope :) still getting trigger errors time after time :) will add logs later, will try to scope the signals :)
Quote from: Denmark on October 10, 2014, 04:37:20 PM
I have had some running on 1.2.11 without problems
But the new 1.2.27 does not work ,
It runs great on older firmware :)
i make pnp prints for the 98-00 model impreza , and the 1.1.96 that i installed on the latest just runs great , and i have made 10+ on the firmware , so thats why i installed so old firmware
/Skassa
Skassa,
Could you post some triggerlogs of 6+7 trigger, cranking only 8-10 seconds without IGN and INJ fuse ? I will use these to verify exactly why its working on bench and not on real engine in 1.2.27 (and up). What is the behaviour you see when trying firmwares 1.2.27-1.2.30 ? E.g. like does not sync/no rpm/no spark or see rpm/but no spark, please elaborate. Thanks,
Best regards, Dave
Hi Dave ,
I Will do that , i just need a car in for a ecu ,
I have one that i need to Call as soon as i get the ecu parts from HU ,
But the problem is around 4000-4500 rpm , there is trigger errors , so much its impossible to run higher rpm ,
I did try all kind of resistors on the last car , i reloaded a older firmware and every time it would run flawless , so finally i gave up running a new firmware and run the car on a older firmware
As soon as i get the car in i Will make the logs for you :)
Thanks
Skassa
will upload some logs this evening :)
http://vems.hu/vemstune/sharingcenter/reports.php?cmd=view&key=RzNmwr
logs with 1.1.96 1.2.30 1.2.23
(http://s14.postimg.org/t7s60ua3x/less_primary.png) (http://postimg.org/image/t7s60ua3x/)
this is how trigger input looks when it getting less primary error
(http://s14.postimg.org/pcory9qy5/problem_subaru.png) (http://postimg.org/image/pcory9qy5/)
same again
(http://s14.postimg.org/hb0jgd86l/sub_2.png) (http://postimg.org/image/hb0jgd86l/)
(http://s14.postimg.org/sq1lyq9wt/subaru.png) (http://postimg.org/image/sq1lyq9wt/)
(http://s14.postimg.org/yzsa7zjxp/subaru_10x.png) (http://postimg.org/image/yzsa7zjxp/)
no error bigger rpm
(http://s14.postimg.org/r9li2uhm5/subaru_idle_10x.png) (http://postimg.org/image/r9li2uhm5/)
idling
http://vems.hu/vemstune/sharingcenter/reports.php?cmd=view&key=RzNmwr
added trigger logs to attachments, there is one with 1.2.30 where it looses sync and start working at idle on wrong cylinder
all errors are only with primary trigger.
old configuration from 1.1.96 works till 1.2.23fw
(http://s28.postimg.org/b7dem9109/trigger_settings.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/b7dem9109/)
vemstune throws an error but it works nice on all cylinders.
it is getting same errors no mater what firmware it has.
and some more
(http://s1.postimg.org/ip2965otn/kelme.png) (http://postimg.org/image/ip2965otn/)
(http://s1.postimg.org/y99mwoyy3/kelme_error.png) (http://postimg.org/image/y99mwoyy3/)
now it is 36-2-2-2 on crank and stock 7 pin trigger on cam, can it somehow be configured to work sequential? because when I try to run it with secondary trigger I'm allways getting less primary trigger error :) it would be nice if someone could solve this :)
Hello Kamuto,
Thanks very much for your very detailed report, i will review and try to recreate these conditions on bench so i can get to the bottom of this.
Best regards, Dave
tried to make it wasted spark with 36-2-2-2 dual output ignition, idle and no boost runs perfect, timing light folows ignition advance ok with no problem, but I cant get it working nicely over all rev range on boost. at about 5000rpm it starts little bit missfiring which is getting worse with rpm, converted it back to stock setup 6-7 still getting errors and rpm spykes :) stock ecu no problem at all :) nice 320hp with one bar boost
Quote from: Kamuto on December 29, 2014, 11:47:25 AM
tried to make it wasted spark with 36-2-2-2 dual output ignition, idle and no boost runs perfect, timing light folows ignition advance ok with no problem, but I cant get it working nicely over all rev range on boost. at about 5000rpm it starts little bit missfiring which is getting worse with rpm, converted it back to stock setup 6-7 still getting errors and rpm spykes :) stock ecu no problem at all :) nice 320hp with one bar boost
That is symptom of electrical noise problem, sensor ground connected to power ground near engine(what is wrong) and you need to use shielded cables for cam/crank sensors.
Quote from: MWfire on December 31, 2014, 11:49:42 AM
Quote from: Kamuto on December 29, 2014, 11:47:25 AM
tried to make it wasted spark with 36-2-2-2 dual output ignition, idle and no boost runs perfect, timing light folows ignition advance ok with no problem, but I cant get it working nicely over all rev range on boost. at about 5000rpm it starts little bit missfiring which is getting worse with rpm, converted it back to stock setup 6-7 still getting errors and rpm spykes :) stock ecu no problem at all :) nice 320hp with one bar boost
That is symptom of electrical noise problem, sensor ground connected to power ground near engine(what is wrong) and you need to use shielded cables for cam/crank sensors.
(http://s13.postimg.org/do1lkqdhv/EJ20_wiring.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/do1lkqdhv/)
this is oem wiring schematics, all important sensors have separated shielded ground wires coming directly to ecu, made separated ground for cam crank triggers to ecu lm1815 ground. all other sensors connected to sensor ground :) how can I check it for noise? because yes it gets worse with bigger engine load.
I just started and run a new Car i had in today with 1.2.27
That was what was the firmware that was on the pcb from HU and it runs flawless
No problem at all
So it seems to be working as it is suposed too
Thanks
Skassa
you are running it with loom adapter or wired it to vems connector? because I'm running loom adapter for it maybe it is the problem :)
No loom ,
I have made pcb for direct fit into subarus
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/Denmark/C70F2136-0586-440C-8DA4-510D1922C59B.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Denmark/media/C70F2136-0586-440C-8DA4-510D1922C59B.jpg.html)
any advice about tracking noise?
Quote from: Denmark on January 01, 2015, 10:49:07 AM
No loom ,
I have made pcb for direct fit into subarus
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/Denmark/C70F2136-0586-440C-8DA4-510D1922C59B.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Denmark/media/C70F2136-0586-440C-8DA4-510D1922C59B.jpg.html)
it looks really nice :) what software you are using for these?
I Can see that yours is a older model with the old cops,
They a notorius for misfire becourse og cracks under the rubber boot ,
That would be my guess for your problem
Quote from: Denmark on January 01, 2015, 11:02:46 AM
I Can see that yours is a older model with the old cops,
They a notorius for misfire becourse og cracks under the rubber boot ,
That would be my guess for your problem
yes, it's an older one, but, no problem totaly with stock ecu :) nice power curve without any jumps or something.
I bet its the secondary trigger, this is the sollution on the secodary trigger on the plastic cam gears models
100nF capacitor inline with sensor, 1KOhm pulldown removed, LM1815 pin5 connected to 5V
Quote from: Kamuto on January 01, 2015, 01:28:08 AM
you are running it with loom adapter or wired it to vems connector? because I'm running loom adapter for it maybe it is the problem :)
Can you make picture?
Where did you connect pin d6,d4,d5 c1,c2,c3 ?
Quote from: Denmark on January 01, 2015, 01:55:57 PM
I bet its the secondary trigger, this is the sollution on the secodary trigger on the plastic cam gears models
100nF capacitor inline with sensor, 1KOhm pulldown removed, LM1815 pin5 connected to 5V
nope, it's primary one, started it with wasted spark, with 6 tooth trigger, after 3000 rpm it looses sync, will make picture later
On Many of the older types i have removed the oe ignitor and the problem goes away 😊
Quote from: Denmark on January 01, 2015, 03:30:45 PM
On Many of the older types i have removed the oe ignitor and the problem goes away 😊
you are reading my minds
Here you go wire to wire Color
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/Denmark/Vems%20pnp%20Impreza/B4C8EC98-F5FF-4399-9B55-245CC08AAC02.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Denmark/media/Vems%20pnp%20Impreza/B4C8EC98-F5FF-4399-9B55-245CC08AAC02.jpg.html)
Thanks, will try this
Quote from: Denmark on January 01, 2015, 03:30:45 PM
On Many of the older types i have removed the oe ignitor and the problem goes away 😊
btw, where should I have to look for it? and how you are controling fuel pump speed for these? or these are simple?
so, still chassing ghosts, today I found one interesting thing.
when engine is cold, no problem with trigger errors, hot engine and it starts throw these when revving.
replaced crank sensor, no change, so what it could be? coils mostly?
(http://s13.postimg.org/qv41fjx8j/cold_engine.png) (http://postimg.org/image/qv41fjx8j/)
(http://s13.postimg.org/cd6u7k5xf/hot_engine.png) (http://postimg.org/image/cd6u7k5xf/)
Quote from: MWfire on January 01, 2015, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: Kamuto on January 01, 2015, 01:28:08 AM
you are running it with loom adapter or wired it to vems connector? because I'm running loom adapter for it maybe it is the problem :)
Can you make picture?
Where did you connect pin d6,d4,d5 c1,c2,c3 ?
d4 primary trigger +
d5 ground near lm1815
d6 sensor ground
c1 sec trigger
c2 ground near lm1815
c3 sensor ground
or d6 and c3 had to be connected to main ground? anyway, it's ok while engine is cold
Bad spark plugs? Something with electrical noise
Also when engine is cold connection to vems is stable. With warm engine you have lot of package lost what indicate lot of electrical noise.
works good when cold, misfires when hot is usually a symptom of coil(pack) failure.
Never had ecu disconnect from my laptop on this car
Look how rpm falls/rise fast in warm log. That speed is impossible and that indicate you have packet lost of data.
Quote from: MWfire on January 06, 2015, 06:58:22 PM
Look how rpm falls/rise fast in warm log. That speed is impossible and that indicate you have packet lost of data.
now I understand your point, it will be coils, tomorow getting new ones ;) anyway that IBM is gold, 0 connection problems when I had changed my laptop and put ssd in it :D
so, today I have replaced ignition coils, put the ones from 2.5l subaru with internal ignitors, no more packet loss, but still having problems on hot engine :(
(http://s7.postimg.org/rozxzxeev/subaru_bbz.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rozxzxeev/)
I even replaced both trigger sensor wires from sensor direct to ecu avoiding loom adapter, no change at all. What more can it be?
made new ground point avoiding stock ground wires, no change, and I believe tomorow on cold engine everything will be perfect...
Hello Kamuto,
Since It may be related to your concern, I tell in your post that I have reported to Vems for what seems to me an out of sync coil type issue. My engine is indeed oddfire, coil type, maserati biturbo (hence firing are at 90°, 150°, 90° etc), fw is 1.2.30.
Here is the case.
I was steadily driving at 60km/h entering a tunnel. When I swiched on the lights (0.:3.88) the engine shakened badly, made big noise, big smoke behind the car and seemed to have no more power.The engine stoppped when I clutched off car still moving. The engine restarted ok clutching on car moving (during busy trafic about Paris, warning lights etc ;) )
I was able to reproduce this disfunction at my parking slot by switching on and off the lights. Here is the triggerlog.
(http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/15/63/46/75/outofs10.jpg)
You see the double firing. After that the engine nicely stopped.
Philippe
so, sorting it again, made a new engine wiring for it, because of ghost noise issue shielded crank cables, good grounding, and so on, nothing has changed, then i scoped lm1815 input and output to the processor
primary trigger
(http://s18.postimg.org/ogge6e8h1/prim.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ogge6e8h1/)
(http://s18.postimg.org/xbmae13l1/prinm.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xbmae13l1/)
(http://s18.postimg.org/664qfs7z9/zzzzpprimary_2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/664qfs7z9/)
(http://s18.postimg.org/4tn1dwajp/zzzzprimary.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4tn1dwajp/)
I thought my scope just dont have enough resolution lm1815 output, but then i scoped secondary trigger
(http://s18.postimg.org/e7syxoqqt/zzzz.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/e7syxoqqt/)(http://s18.postimg.org/s2r9g5l5x/zzzz2_sec.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/s2r9g5l5x/)(http://s18.postimg.org/5zlzfksit/zzzzz1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5zlzfksit/)
secondary whatever is the rpm always has output from lm1815
so what is the problem? I have 2 subarus with that problem and cant solve it.
do I have to change some caps on output or convert primary circuit to secondary?
what should I do? it would be nice to get a proper answer in few days because I have wasted really much time on it and still cant get it working properly.
i what mode is your primary lm(open, 5v or gnd)?
Open, +5 does not helps, what r30 should be here?
I noticed the peak level of the VR sensor signal is fluctuating somewhat. Since LM1815 has an adaptive threshold this can be a concern.
Have you tried to record the signal as a wav file along with VT recording triggerlog in order to catch the default?
In any case with coil trig setup the fw should detect the missing or extra pulse, stop firing and resync
Trigger log is ok, I just thaught maybe just scope resolution is too small to catch lm output?
If you want to make longer impulse from lm, just add 10nF between gnd and pin 14(rtc). Because trigger edge is rising you will not have a problem. Problems could happen on tw with many teeth(more than 60).
anyway what else possible reasons of it can be? like rpm spikes?
Why not try a .wav recording of the VR signal through the micro input of your computer? You should probably have to divide the signal voltage.
In my case, the primtrig lost which makes the engine to run out of sync may have come from some spike on the voltage power. I need to confirm.
added one file, named problem again
http://vems.hu/vemstune/sharingcenter/reports.php?cmd=view&key=RzNmwr
1.2.23 fw with old config, this one throws error but does not start firing on other cylinder.
it was tried with 1.1.96 1.1.94 same stuff happens, board is 3.8
1.2.30 with config from configlet gets trigger error and syncs on wrong cylinder :) engine dies then
finally solved it!!!!
added capacitor on lm output to get wider signal for scope logged it and finally found reason what caused my trigger errors :)
(http://s23.postimg.org/3tlxp473b/errror.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3tlxp473b/)
vr signal in this one was lowered 10x on scope so hard to see zero crossing
sometimes between trigger tooths it were small zero crosing waves in trigger signal what made lm1815 to trigger
(http://s23.postimg.org/b8b9hhsyv/wawe2s.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/b8b9hhsyv/)
secondary picture is with 2.7k pulldown resistor installed on primary trigger and r30 75k so these small wawes are no more zero crossing