VEMS Community Forum

Technical => Ignition => Topic started by: bcool on October 27, 2007, 06:32:57 AM

Title: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 27, 2007, 06:32:57 AM
Heres my settings from another post:

http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=287.0

My setup consists of a 12V 10A fused feed to the positive side of the each of the 3 coils and the negative feeds goes straight into the corresponding pins on the ECU.

I tried a trigger light on each wire. I tried putting a spark plug on one wire and firing it grounded to the motor for a visual spark inspection and i tried running a igniter on one of the coils just for a test. and still no beans. 

My injectors are firing (I keep a node light on one of the primaries when i'm cranking)

I have 3 coils 1 for each rotor. Things to start checking for?
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: [email protected] on October 27, 2007, 09:32:47 AM
Quote from: bcool on October 27, 2007, 06:32:57 AM
I tried a trigger light on each wire. I tried putting a spark plug on one wire and firing it grounded to the motor for a visual spark inspection and i tried running a igniter on one of the coils just for a test. and still no beans. 

Be really careful doing this, you can get massive back EMF when the coils discharge, they could make your day go really badly.

Do you mean that you got a spark when the coil was grounded?

Can you put a resistor (1K should do it) between +12v and the coil driver, then use a scope to check that the IGBT is being driven correctly.

Which igniter are you using?  You might need to use the stepper motor driver to drive an external igniter.
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 27, 2007, 10:38:39 AM
Well i have it set up to not use an igniter at all. I guess i'll have to try to track down a scope.
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 27, 2007, 11:12:18 AM
Have you upgraded the firmware from 1.0.53?

If so, have you reconfigured the h2 table entries?

I had this where i wasnt getting a spark, yet everything was set right. It worked fine on 1.0.53 firware, but not on 1.0.71. Took me a while to work out that the  h2 entries in the tables.txt file were incorrect. The entries need moving to the 'upper' byte where originaly it may have been '01', needs to be changed to '10'. this needs to be done for all the h2 entries
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: [email protected] on October 27, 2007, 07:06:12 PM
Good point Mr Sprocket, the h[2] table values changed after 1.0.7x, I've written some wordage on this here:
http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=120.msg1028#msg1028

Rob
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 27, 2007, 09:58:36 PM
My values are:

h[0]= 01 03 04 08 01 02 00 00

Does this seem right. I think i was using an earlier version of the firmware when i was getting everything set up and then i switched to the latest version.

Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 27, 2007, 10:41:56 PM
Thats the h[0] table. This table is for injector outputs

Have a look at a couple of lines down at the h[2] table
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 27, 2007, 11:02:20 PM
Sorry didnt realize that i got them mixed up.

h[0]=01 03 06 0B 14 25 00 00
h[1]=AF 74 AF BA B1 74 AF 74
h[2]=97 24 B7 34 AF 74 AF C4


Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 27, 2007, 11:19:00 PM
The bottom one is the one of concern.

Lol, i dont recognise those values, though i can see a slight pattern that would suggest they need altering. I asume you are using the stepper outputs rather than the IGBT outputs?? in which case, you'll have to wait for Rob to help you with this one.
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 27, 2007, 11:23:27 PM
No i'm using the IGBT's
Edit
The one on the right

(http://myweb.cableone.net/mjbless/vems/igbt.jpg)
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 27, 2007, 11:26:13 PM
Are you using stepper outputs 4 and 7 EC36 pins 11 and 10?

Have you configured any other misc outputs on ignition dirvers (I259)??
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 27, 2007, 11:28:56 PM
Dont know if you posted before i edited my last post but i'm using the IGBT on the right

My ouputs are

Coil 1=Pin 35
Coil 2=Pin 33
Coil 3=Pin 34
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 27, 2007, 11:47:10 PM
Oh i misread your post. I'm not running anything else on the I259 channel
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 27, 2007, 11:54:53 PM
Right then.

You need to set in the ignition settings menu the 'Ignition outputs in use in h[2]' to '2..0', 'Ignition driver type' to 'Dummy'

In ignition outputs menue, set 'Ignition outputs in use in h[2] table' to '2..0' unless you are using some of the  Ignition outputs for other things such as relays or shift lights, in which case it will be different. Then select which output to use on the table entries (listed in a column down the left) using the drop down boxes on the right, selecting the IGBToutputs highlighted with the EC36 pin numbers that you have wired the coils to.

Basicaly your h[2] table should look something like this h[2]=20 10 30 00 00 00 00 00 depending on the firing order.

Not being overly familiar with rotary engines, i cant help with the firing order or final set up, but i hope i have given you an idea what to be looking for.

Wait for Rob to confirm this before you try it on the engine, like i said, i havent any experience on a rotary engine
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 27, 2007, 11:57:57 PM
Well its pretty simple Each sparkplug fires once per rotation and my firing order is 1-2-3. Cant be much more simple than that

I'll input those settings in and see if i get any spark
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 28, 2007, 12:07:55 AM
Download and Double check your h[2] entries in the tables.txt file

If they dont look like 30 20 10 00 00 00 00 00 edit them save the file, recompile and upload.

Remember that the h[2] table traverses from the last entry to the first so looking at the above line, it traverses from right to left
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 28, 2007, 12:09:08 AM
Wait, lol i made a mistake in my last post, i have now edited it and it is now correct

Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 12:10:14 AM
Hrmmmm well i put the timing light on the wire and I get a light pulse every so often.
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 12:11:15 AM
My table entry looks like 10 20 30 00 00 00 00 00
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 28, 2007, 12:15:16 AM
It would apear you have configured the firing order as 3,2,1.

Remember it runs backwards through the h[2] table entries.

Is this spark something you have not had yet? Do you think we are getting somehwere?
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 12:16:56 AM
Alright I'll reconfigure the table and no this would be a first. The car hasnt run under VEMS power yet
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 12:22:18 AM
Alright new entrys in. Still no beans. I am getting an intermitant spark out of #2 though, so we are getting somewhere.
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 28, 2007, 12:24:34 AM
Im afraid i am now at my limit of knowledge now on bith the VEMS and the engine, lol, but i hope it has been of some use ::)
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 12:25:42 AM
Yes you have. The only one i see getting a signal is Coil #2 I get a spark every second or so, but i does seem to be consistent.
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 28, 2007, 12:33:24 AM
you deffo have IGBTs installed onbord at EC36 pins 34 and 35

i have only the two IGBTs installed at 34 and 36, these are the two red locations in the middle row shown in the picture below

(http://www.vems.hu/files/genboardv3/images/v3.2/v3.2_bottom_components.jpg)
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 12:40:02 AM
Back of my board:

(http://myweb.cableone.net/mjbless/vems/back.JPG)
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 12:45:07 AM
I turned the coil dwell time down to 2 and i appear to be getting a lot more consistant spark out of #2 but #2 is all i'm getting spark out of
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 28, 2007, 12:47:58 AM
It looks like you have installed IGTBs to pins 36 35 and 33

Is this correct?
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 12:53:54 AM
Haha, yes you would be correct. I even had it marked out on the board right i think in the back of my mind is saw 03 and though coil #3

Fixing now...
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 28, 2007, 12:59:48 AM
I bet your neighbours love you trying to get your car started at this time of night :D
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 01:01:37 AM
6PM is pretty late...

haha, I'm over here in the colonies
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 28, 2007, 01:02:45 AM
Ha ha, coolio

Its 1 am over here in GB
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 01:33:53 AM
Damn now its only # 1 that isnt firing
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: Sprocket on October 28, 2007, 01:45:53 AM
Im not being funny mate, but im goin to bed, lol. Maybe by the time i get up in the morning Rob may have posted back and spotted something.

Catch you later ;)
Title: Re: On to a new problem: My ignition isnt firing
Post by: bcool on October 28, 2007, 01:52:19 AM
Yes thank you very much. I changed the code now #1 is firing So we'll see. Thanks again.