It seems that thereÃ,´s always something new to fiddle with, so i thought that maybe itÃ,´s better to create my own "project"page here..
My car Is Opel Calibra Turbo 4X4 1995, engine is 2.0 16V turbocharged C20LET.
VEMS was already installed when i bought that in January 07, so i donÃ,´t have much knowledge about those trigger setups and things what are needed to do when installing.
Previous owner had it tuned pretty good, but thereÃ,´s always something to improve.
HereÃ,´s an pic of it from last winter
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/esi.jpg)
Engine
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/kones.jpg)
Without covers
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/sivultakone.jpg)
I use it as my daily driver, so far itÃ,´s been very reliable to use. I live in Finland, and as you see from pic above, winter is quite snowy, long and cold in here. For example in last winter here were near -40c temps for few weeks, and iÃ,´m driving with that thing in those temps.
12.11.07 Vems updated to firmware 1.0.73
18.11.07 Changed 12X12 to 16X14
I got that Cold Start issue solved, but iÃ,´ll add a link to it:
http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=280.0
Now iÃ,´m working with that stalling problem
http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=296.0
Stalling cured, i enabled that idle PID controller and put some small values to it.
Those bigger tables helped a lot too, i added more points to near idle. 600 800 1000 1200 ->
29.01.08 Changed slow IAT sensor to faster one: Bosch 039 to 085.
Tried to update to 1.0.73, with no luck..
It started but ran very rough, with lots of unburnt smell of fuel coming from tailpipe.
And it felt that ignition was everywhere, no good.
I did change that h2 table, is there something else to do too??
h[0]=02 08 04 01 10 20 40 80
h[1]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
h[2]=50 40 50 40 10 30 10 30
IÃ,´m not using secondtrigger at the moment.
Here is working trigger and ignition setup from 1.0.53
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/triggerignition1053.jpg)
And this is the trigger from 1.0.73
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/trigger1073.jpg)
I did take a short log of it too:
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/log.jpg)
Those tooth relation stuffs makes me wonder that are they wrong in my current setup.
DidnÃ,´t play much with them, i thought that iÃ,´ll ask here first.
As i understand the tooth relative stuff only applies to one of the filtering options.... pretty sure it's the advanced filtering.
BTW that's a cool project. Being in America we dont get Opels, Citroëns, etc over here, but from the sounds of it that opel looks to be a nice platform.
Thanks for the reply..
Did some research in wiki and found something interesting:
NOTE: if upgrading from 1.0.53 or older you will need to type this in by hand
Manttg20h00g21h00g22h00g23h00g24h00g25h00g26h00g27h00mcsbye
Wonder what that does??
Will that just change that h2 line or could this be the answer to my problem?
I'd not start typing things like that in, what is it that you are trying to achive?
IÃ,´m trying to update to firmware 1.0.73
Tried with other full 1.0.53 version too, no luck, same problems
Hmm found that vemsv3.ini and vems.hex are modified. Gets interesting now.
I called to previous owner and he told that there were some problems with hall sensor in second trigger. It was broked for some reason 2 times, so he get pissed with it and he changed those ignition and wiring setups. If he remembers correctly...
He advised me that thereÃ,´s two way to do that update:
1. Modify that vemsv3.ini from .073 so that ignition is same as now ( I donÃ,´t know that why is that vems.hex modified too)
2. Change wiring from EC36 to original. And at the same i should put some new wires inside vems.
When starting Mt , it has always prompted like this:
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/error.jpg)
It shows that message after iÃ,´ve selected that Highboost option.
But iÃ,´ve never had any problem so far with it!
IÃ,´m using COPs in wasted spark mode..
Wich way would be better...????
Are you using 1.0.73Final:
http://media.vems.se/code/VemsMT1.0.73Final.zip
Please do not try to upgrade from one firmware version to another by loading MSQ files, this can work but is likely to be problematic theres a guide written here:
http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=120.0
The second post explains the ignition.
yeh iÃ,´ve done that upgrade like in that link, but obviously it wonÃ,´t work because those ignition changes..
IÃ,´ve been thinking this problem and i think i might try to convert those wirings and vems back to original state.
ItÃ,´s probably the best way to do because of future updates and stuff.
When i called to previous owner he told that i should put some new jumperwires inside vems, thatÃ,´s because of now those cops are plugged in as pairs, if i did understand it right.
Hope i can get all the help i need from here, because i donÃ,´t want to disturb him all the time, and maybe i can learn some new things too...
Ah! You're running COPs...
They should be wired individually and you'll need to use the Ignition Dual Out function, which fires the channels in pairs 00 & 01, 02&03, 04&05, 06&07.
So which pins are your COPs connected to?
If you had, for instance, COPs 1 & 4 wired to 00 & 01 and 2 & 3 connected to 02 & 03 then your H[2] table would look like:
h[2] = 20 00 20 00 20 00 20 00
Rob
h2 looks like this now h[2]=05 04 05 04 01 03 01 03
And it is in dual output mode.
Those ignition settings are in this thread, in reply 1.
I think iÃ,´ll try to investigate those wirings tomorrow, and look inside that Vems unit too.
Well 50 and 40 are pretty much sure to be wrong, so find which pins have IGBTs populating them, and which pins are connected, then I'll come up with something thats more likely to be right.
I might split this thread off into its own Wasted spark using COPs thread.
Could this cause that rpm signal go like that what log shows earlier in this thread?.
Or is there more problems to come with this? Probably this solves that but...
Those COPÃ,´s are from Audi 1.8T so they are active COPs , am i correct, no need for those IGBTs ??
Did some measuring today
Wirings to COPs :
Cyl 1 = 00 (Pin 35)
Cyl 2 = 03 (Pin 36)
Cyl 3 = 05 (Pin 12)
Cyl 4 = 04 (Pin 11)
Few pics that may help
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/Upper.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/Lower.jpg)
There are not enough IGBTs (Silver tabbed ones) to drive your coils.
Its easy enough to solder a new one in, and while you're doing it set them up so that coil 00 & 01 (EC36pin35 and pin33) and coil 04 & 05 (EC36pin11 & pin12) are populated.
Cheers
Rob
Actually...
What I've written is the case for simple COPs which dont have igniter transistors built in (smart coils).
If you have smart coils then you are probably better off using the stepper driver outputs Stepper A & B (EC18pin4 and pin10) and C & D (EC18pin5 and pin 11) will be the ones to connected: A to cylinder 1, B cylinder 4, C to cylinder 2, & D to cylinder 3
Hmm ,this gets now confusing... :D
They are same COPÃ,´s as in VEMS shop (06B905115L)
http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_7&products_id=112&osCsid=0229e25d42547d70ef273dab26b7e762 (http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_7&products_id=112&osCsid=0229e25d42547d70ef273dab26b7e762)
What does i need to modify if i take the easiest way?
Change wirings of those COPÃ,´s? Nothing else?
What advantage does it have when running them through stepper driver outputs?
And how i tell to vems to use COPÃ,´s through stepper, i didnÃ,´t find that EC18 on ignition menus, only EC36
Why there are small jumper wires between those IGBT holes?
First we need to work out what COPs you have... What car are they from originally? Do you have part numbers or schematics for them? How many pins do they have?
Rob
Quote from: [email protected] on November 11, 2007, 03:09:46 PM
First we need to work out what COPs you have...
See:
Quote from: Tcal on November 11, 2007, 03:02:15 PM
They are same COPÃ,´s as in VEMS shop (06B905115L)
http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_7&products_id=112&osCsid=0229e25d42547d70ef273dab26b7e762 (http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_7&products_id=112&osCsid=0229e25d42547d70ef273dab26b7e762)
::) :D
I did modify that message after Rob had sent his reply. I wasnÃ,´t 100% sure of those CopÃ,´s so i had to go and check them...
Use the steppers then:
Cylinder 1 S259 3 h[2] value = 0x36 EC18-pin4
Cylinder 4 S259 4 h[2] value = 0x46 EC18-pin10
Cylinder 2 S259 5 h[2] value = 0x56 EC18-pin5
Cylinder 3 S259 6 h[2] value = 0x66 EC18-pin11
You use Settings->Ignition Settings and set Dual Output Mode (see manual) tp Enabled. This then enables the menu item: Settings->Ignition Outputs Dual where you set 3 and 1 to: (Step A,B EC18 pin 4, 10) and
2 and 0 to (Step C,D EC18 pin 5, 11)[/tt]
So if you download the config and tables h[2] will look like:
h[2] = 66 46 66 46 00 00 00 00
Sounds simple... ;D
At 1.0.53 there isnÃ,´t even a choice for that EC18 in ignition outputs..
I looked at 1.0.73 and there it is. Hmm makes sense now.
One question more, as i have now h[2]=05 04 05 04 01 03 01 03[/b,] i donÃ,´t have to use those last four , i ll just leave them blank?
Or does i have to make my h2 look like h[2] = 66 46 66 46 10 30 10 30 ?
I dont know why, but they've always said that its "good practice" to set the h[2] with the same pattern in the blanks so
h[2] = 66 46 66 46 66 46 66 46
Did that wiring change and all seems to be ok...
Is there anything else to check after update??
I did use that generate-config without defaults.
Car started great and runs ok now with 1.0.73 firmware!!
And i did leave those last four values to 00 in h2 table.
ThankÃ,´s a lot of your support on this Rob.!!
What to check?
Well make sure that you scope the advance across the RPM range, do lots of datalogs and make sure that things are working as they should, and most of all have fun with it! ;D
Hmm, probably best improvement so far iÃ,´ve noticed is that EGoC stays on when releasing throttle to idle.
No problems so far with new firmware.
I did prepare new 16X14 maps, iÃ,´m thinking that i could improve that idle area more...
One trick I was shown by Gary of Automotive Performance Tuning, was to set a cell 200rpm either side of your idle.
So if you plan to idle at 950rpm set the first cells of the map as:
750 950 1150
You'll find that this can really smooth out your idle.
Rob
I did some injector rampup testing today, and i did find that if i double it, it smoothens a lot of that jumping on small TP..
Injectors are about 500ccÃ,´s and and PW is near 1.1 when this jumping happens..
Normal warm idle PW is 1.3-1.4, and iÃ,´m pretty happy with my idle.
So if i like double that Rampup, should i just set Reqfuel or is it better to run new maps or just scale my recent ones?
Reqfuel 4.4
Ve values are 65-200
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/injector.jpg)
At 1.1ms you're probably not getting a consistent injector opening, chances are that you're down that low to get lambda 1.0 that your engine is passing a lot of unburnt fuel out its exhaust. When the car is warmed up and idling, take some white paper towel and hold it for a second over the exhaust - if there are spots of liquid on the towel the you're not burning the fuel.
First thing is to make sure that you are not injecting on an open valve, have a read of this thread: http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=289.msg2977#msg2977
Double the Injector ramp-up and then try steps of 100 at a time you'll find that there is a 'sweet spot' that gives a good idle.
Next you could half your req_fuel and double your VE, this gives you twice the resolution with adjustments, but it will mean that you run out of fuel in the 200 region but it is possible to scale the map cells using the lambda table.
I think that i didnÃ,´t describe this good enough...
Idle is ok, it happens usually when going downhill with small TP.
I tried to fix that with fuelcut but when that cut ends it does it too sharp.
It might get better with some tweaking on those Fuelcut thingys...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee104/Tcal95/jumping.jpg)
Fuelcut under 20
Overrun fuelcut 1900
Overrun fuelresume 1500
IÃ,´ve used those values , i donÃ,´t remember what is in in that log..
I donÃ,´t bother with this so much, itÃ,´s my girlfriend that says itÃ,´s not good :D
i did try to fix that stalling problem again. I did again notice that when IAT is near 10c it wonÃ,´t happen, but when it heatsoaks and starts to show something like 25 then im having those problems again.
It doesnÃ,´t have much difference if i blip throttle like 3% or 30%. Then revs drop near 600-700 and then recovers...
Okay, if i put larger value to idle PID ref table, it helps a bit.
But when IAT gets colder like -5degrees, idle goes too up because of that larger value in that table.
I did try that PID controller too again, didnÃ,´t have enough motivation with it.
Maybe iÃ,´m stupid with this but does that do same even if PID is setted ok, because of that heatsoaking??
IAC DC is near 53 when warm engine and cold weather and idle is much smoother too...
IAC DC is near 56 when warm engine and warm weather/heatsoaked IAT
Are you adjusting the values in: Extras->Idle PID Ref table, PWM
Rob
Correct.
So you're saying the heat of the IAT is effecting your idle? Have you turned the MAT dependent retard off ( Settings->Constants )
The PID should work across temperature ranges though.
I have fake airdensity 98 in Megatune.
Thats for barometric correction, shouldn't effect anything.
:o
I havenÃ,´t even noticed those new options. ;D but now i see them, they are both enabled..
I have same problem on my opel 2.0. When the iac is cold, 39% DC is enough for 1200rpms, but when is hot(iac) i need 47%DC for 1000rpm. I can see that map is changing when is fuel off and 2000rpm. Hotter iac and map is lower. I think my iac is broken(I did some cleanig and now is better).
I was wondering about that, i have now all banks firing when cranking. If i change it to alternate iÃ,´ll have to multiply those cranking pulses, correct?
Yes, you'll be getting around 1/4 the amount of fuel going from all banks to alternating.
Added some pics and stuff to first message...
I've been playing with idle quite a lot.
When iat is at 5, iac dc is 52-53. And iat at 30-40 then that dc is 58-59.
If i set that ref point to 53, cold iat idle works perfectly. With this setup warm iat idle is not good. (rpms drop too low after revving because idle valve waits at too small position, revs usually recover after this dip)
If i set that ref point to 56, it cures those warm problems, (hot startup ase idle, idle after revving) but with this, cold iat idle stays at 1700-1900 rpm and iac dc stays in that 56.
Why does it do this.?
Idle adv controller is on.
And idle pid too. And this pid thing is the bugger i've been playing with.
If setting those inc/dec values big enough, idle starts to oscillate..
And yes i've tried a lot of different PID values.
sorry if this is too messy to read. I have to write this through my phone. For some reason my pc's isp provider doesn't allow me to enter this site.
Edit: i've found in wiki that Peter Jensen added an diode between those iac valve wirings. Could this be the answer to my problems.?
I Added a diode between iac valve wires.
It behaves better now. I did drove it about half an hour... It idled fine. Even if ref value was 56 or 57.
Next question is, will that diode do any harm to ecu or so when fitted like that ?
I Added a diode between iac valve wires.
It behaves better now. I did drove it about half an hour... It idled fine. Even if ref value was 56 or 57.
Next question is, will that diode do any harm to ecu or so when fitted like that ?
That diode is acting as an auxillary flyback diode. It will not hurt the injectors as its in a different circuit - and its a good solution, there must be a lot of voltage dumped back when a low resistance solenoid discharges...
What sort of resistance is the IACV solenoid?
I measured 8.5 ohms. I unsoldered that diode from old power supply... Should i get the correct one.?
8.5 ohms is a low resistance, thats going to kick a load of reverse EMF out as it closes - your 18V transient diode will do the business.
Rob
I have now 1N5819 schottky 1A 40V diode installed, hope that it's ok..
Hi,
TCal would you like to put some screenshots of your idle valve setup ?
I have a some problems with mine and I would very appreciate if I can look into someone good working setup :)
Thank You
Jadzwin
Ok, iÃ,´ll search for them.
I sold this car last weekend...
Heh :)
Are you planing to "Vems" another car ?
Jadzwin