Is there any chance, that we could get software released with this option?
4 inj outputs with gasoline and other 4 inj outputs with LPG...
On turbo engiine, of course... :D
Maybe with some switching on boost... :D
The switchable setup is still in testing.
OK. C'mon guys, want to switch on VEMS... Waiting for bifuel... :D
I'm not wishing to be rude, but have you actually got the car running on a single fuel yet ???
Getting an engine on a stand-alone ECU up and running is far from easy, and making a bi-fuel setup that works is going to add further complication...
Yes, but, this is a daily driver. If I switch to VEMS on fuel, then I would have to be going to work with bus... No way... :D
Maybe I'm missing what you're trying to do - are you planning on using VEMS to run the second type of fuel and keep the stock ECU running on gasoline?
No. I want to remove both motronic and landi renzo... So VEMS can take over everything... :D
I see that 1.1.33 has this feature...
Then you'll be taking the Bus to work as theres no way you'll get two fuels running any faster than you'd get one fuel working.
Seriously get petrol running first, then your car will not be immobile as you wrestle with the complexities of getting a second fuel working.
Hi,
Doesn't LPG have a higher knock resistance than petrol?
Cheers,
Gavin :)
lpg has 110-115 octane value(depend on propan-butan ratio)
Hi,
That's what I thought, so why would you want to switch the LPG off when on boost?
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Because LPG injectors can supply only 40kw per cylinder MAX... So, on 0.5bar boost that is over 40kw...
That's why...
But driving on petrol every day to work is to expansive...
Hi,
I see now :) I've learned something else, as I'll be looking into LPG in the future.
Cheers,
Gavin :)
What do you think, when will this release for bifuel be official?
I'm waiting for the right moment to switch to VEMS.. :D It's sitting in my room and waiting for it... :D
I have this problem. Gasoline injectors are High-Z (about 16ohm) and LPG injectors are Low-Z (about 1.5ohm)...
As I understood, I cannot change PWM to non PWM when changing fuel on bifuel support because firmware doesn't support it...
My friend's idea was to implement another ATmega to do the PWM on LPG... My idea was to simply mask off INJ tranzistors when on LPG and add on another 4 INJ tranzistors for LPG with external PWM signal (from outside ATmega)...
Any comments?
So here is my solution...
LPG connected to INJ04-07 LOW-Z
Petrol connected to INJ00-03 HIGH-Z
Instead of switch, you can use some TTL logic, but this is not to complicate picture...
What do you think? :)
(http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6191/lpgmodlx0.png)
Hi,
I like the idea, simple enough to be possible and would only need dual table swithcing in the software to implement it :)
Cheers,
Gavin :)
1.1.32 has switch-activated full-table-and-config-swap
Have anyone tested this version of firmware?
Hi,
Does that mean it has a switchable boost table too?
Because I'd be really interested in that! ;D
EDIT: That should do the job for the LPG too, with no hardware mods required?
Cheers,
Gavin :)
It switches the whole config and tables, the lot, everything.
As for testing, its the sort of thing we could easily do here, just needs people to back-up their working installations (using download-config NOT MegaTune ;D) and to try getting the new stuff to work - report bugs to the developers and see how we get on.
Rob
Nice... :) Can this new hanky-panky software change injector outputs also? So I would use INJA:D for petrol and INJE:H for LPG? Or there is a problem of injector left open when switching if the switching was during the time period it was open?
BTW, Rob, can I connect fuel pump, IAC, shiftlight, rpm out, etc on other outputs than INJ (if can, on what)?
Quote from: mr_g on July 02, 2008, 09:28:07 AM
BTW, Rob, can I connect fuel pump, IAC, shiftlight, rpm out, etc on other outputs than INJ (if can, on what)?
You can connect to p259(350mA max), s259,i259,specfet.
How many 350mA outputs there is (8)? I have to solder stepper driver so I would then have 1A outputs.. Right?
Can I use ING outputs for IAC, boost?
What about Drive-A and Drive-B outputs? I have IAC (aprox 2A) and Boost valve (1A). Could I connect them to this outputs if ING outputs are unavailable?
This forum is great. With my friend Damir Muha, this place and a lot of headache on wiki, I know a lot more about VEMS then 5 days before... :lol:
You can use spare ignition drivers for solenoids. The stepper gives you 4 1A outputs - note: it can push 12v as well as switch it to ground, we've got VTEC solenoids switching using the stepper, and I'm going to see if I can get my Nissan Tacho running driven directly from the stepper :D
So, I can use any spare output (ING, INJ, P259, stepper, Drive-A/B) for misc outputs like IAC (PWM), boost (PWM), shiftlight, tacho, fuel pump reley, tank vent valve, coolant vent, etc... All I have to worry about is supply current... Right?
What about misc inputs? I need inputs for: LPG (switching configs), ALS, Flat shifting? Also I need monitoring (analog) for pressure in LPG rail. And anything else I can't think of now?
Hi,
As far as I know you can only get PWM on the INJ outputs.
Cheers,
Gavin :)
But it's a slow PWM for IAC and boost... And I think that drive-a/b are PWM outputs... If only that is implemented in firmware..
If you're making your own unit up from a PCB then you use the spare inputs on the A2D converter - I'm not 100% sure on how thats done (I was told but I forgot it, mainly because I was more interested in Writing the User Guide for completed units).
I used drive-a, drive-b for IAC and boost and it works fine (specfet in megatune).
P259 works fine with rpm, fp, etc (thank you MWfire)...
Now I have to get working bifuel support...
My idea is this:
I'm driving on LPG, and when I press hard and LPG injectors reach like 95% of duty cycle, VEMS opens gasoline injectors as needed (staged injectors)... Is this possible in double configs?
On the other hand, when I switch config to gasoline, and I'm driving on gasoline, and when I press hard and gasoline injectors reach 95% of duty cycle, VEMS opens LPG injectors as needed (staged injectors)... If I get big enough injectors for gasoline, this would never happen, but it's to solve the problem of injector left open when switching configs...
Is this possible? Can Marcell answer this question, please?
I can't repeat enough, we dont get any support from anyone but us here unless I go and get someone like Jorgen or Jason to help. Marcell is actively against the forum and has asked me to shut it down in the past because he thinks the Wiki is the answer for support.
That just sad ???
all i can say to that is hmmmm.
But i must say that iÃ,´m really glad for the support on here..
And as You can see , not much is happening with the advance quistion problem i have, and for sure if a error in the software.
as it only advance half of whats written!...
/Skassa
I'm not completely alone here, if I ask questions on the IRC then, if the right person is active I get an answer
Quote
[09:28] <PhatBob> Will there be a dual config support on a 1.0.xx firmware release?
[09:30] <Andrey> dual tables, but one config
[09:31] <PhatBob> I thought 1.1.33 switched configs and tables?
[09:33] <Andrey> according to storage.c it switch 3 tables: boost, ve, adv
[09:35] <Andrey> (ve table with lambda table too)
[09:36] <Andrey> seems it isnt hard to move some source lines from 1.1.xx to 1.0.xx
[09:45] <PhatBob> do you have any idea why it hasnt been released?
[09:45] <PhatBob> or made public enough for testing?
[09:49] <Andrey> hmm no
[09:49] <Andrey> no ideas
[09:51] <Andrey> what progress with 2JZ ?
[09:51] <Andrey> i use last svn revision (with mat table)
(http://www.audiclub.fi/kalske/vems/mat_cor.PNG)
That is just sad... Could I get bifuel supported firmware, please...
DAMN! Or I will make it myself!
As I was browsing through wiki (the crazyest thing ever made) I have found out that double configs are only in 1.1.32 supported... It says do not use.. And of course it is not downloadable... There is 1.1.33. That should have double configs... But it's also for bench test only... What ever it means...
If wasn't this forum, and my friend MWfire, and you Rob, I would still be looking at the VEMS on my table in my room.. So the forum is one big collective knowledge... Wiki on the other hand... Damn! What a piece of shit.. And what is IRC.. :lol: I have never use that thing... :lol:
Anyway, I need LPG... Should I go and seek my luck with 1.1.33, or make script that would change config files every time I switch fuel? ??? :-\ >:(
Sorry for my dirty words, I'm on the edge of nervous break down... :-\
BTW, forum is really slow. What is going on?
As I say, test on the bench - which means test the thing completely and thoroughly off the car, you know the problems you had with upgrading 1.0.73 to 1.1.xx? Thats just a fraction of what can go wrong when running untested firmware:(
1.0.77 firmware has N20 control, IÃ,´m assuming this is basically a single channel INJ control, for instance could be used for N02
or other PWM circuit.
Also I see it has Staged Injectors.
Nothing about it on the wiki or here.
does anybody have a list of what has been changed?
Mr_g and i started his car on lpg.
(http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6914/77749460qs5.th.jpg) (http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=77749460qs5.jpg)
First we try with resistors serial connected with lpg injectors(1.7ohm). With 10ohm, injectors are closed, same thing with 5ohm. With 3.3ohm some injectors canââ,¬â,,¢t open:(. So we decided to use pwm.
Petrol injectors(high z) are connected inj0-3, gas(low z) to inj4-7. So we modified vems.
(http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7601/78438868lq5.th.jpg) (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=78438868lq5.jpg)
(http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/5784/60342134mz8.th.jpg) (http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=60342134mz8.jpg)
(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/962/18867621xd5.th.jpg) (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=18867621xd5.jpg)
Basically pwm settings doesnââ,¬â,,¢t affect to gasoline injectors, only to lpg injectors.
For now firmware is 1.0.73 so itââ,¬â,,¢s impossible to change petrol/gas while driving.
Next step is go to 1.1.36(dual tables and configs).
Motronic,ups vems:)
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6497/74976579wm2.th.jpg) (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=74976579wm2.jpg)
Yes, it's pretty like this changes...
But I still have a problem with injectors closing time, and therefore exhaust backfires, dizzy idle, high LPG consumption, etc...
We will use active 12V flyback for PWM time, and 45V transistor flyback for closing time...
And I'm still waiting for stable version with dual config...
LPG injectors are LOW-Z (1.7ohm), and gasoline injectors are High-Z (12ohm)...
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8632/lpgmodei8.png)
I'll check on the status of the dual map setup.
Yes. Thank you... MWfire did ask Marcell to make 1.0.x version with dual config, so it would be stable... The thing with bifuel is that all the configuration must be duplicated, not just ve, lambda, and spark...
Hello.
mr_g, can you explain what OC0 output do? Or it is input?
Gints
OC0 is pwm control(62500Hz).
Yes. Look at the v3.3 schematics... It's PWM output generated by Atmel...
???
How it works? One output for all injectors. How peak time is realized for given injector?
Gints
Mosfet driver is inverterd(when is 0V on input then injector is on).
When injector is off, then on avr output is high(+5V). When is injector open(peak time) then on avr output is low(0V). When pwm is enablen on avr output is high z(high impendance) so OC0 is control this injector via R17x resistor.
As MWfire tried to explane, on PWM, AVR output to that mosfet is in high-Z state.. So, mosfet driver will see 62500Hz from OC0 output over that resistor (witch is 2K2 on v3.4)...
On ramp up time, AVR outputs low state to mosfet driver and override PWM...
On injector off time, AVR outputs high state to mosfet driver and also override PWM...
In this configuration, I use one bank for high-Z gasoline injectors (INJA-INJD), and another bank for low-Z LPG injectors on PWM (INJE-INJH)...
Thanks for explanations!
What is plan about realizing 12V flyback at PWM time?
We will put active flyback (4 flybacks actually for 4 PWM injectors) and 1 high voltage flyback I already have..
Will see how it goes when PCB for flybacks is ready...
Active flyback...
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGoranJurkovic%2FDaewooLaNOS%2FLPG (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGoranJurkovic%2FDaewooLaNOS%2FLPG)
I made one prototype for my car.
PCB
(http://hosting01.imagecross.com/image-hosting-th-07/49841.jpg) (http://www.imagecross.com/01/image-hosting-view-07.php?id=49841.jpg)
Assembled board(missing 2 zener diodes, i bought two too few)
(http://hosting01.imagecross.com/image-hosting-th-07/4062.jpg) (http://www.imagecross.com/01/image-hosting-view-07.php?id=4062.jpg)
This is slightly different vesion. It has an installed flyback.
Test soon.
What are those diodes in series connected from Source to Drain?
I did it also on proto board...
(http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/705000-705999/705337_241_full.jpg)
(http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/705000-705999/705337_242_full.jpg)
I have tried it, and it works perfect.... I still don't have those 15V zenner 5W, but I will put them today... Car is idling great at 1.05lmabda with no missfires... Before, it could idle nice above 0.80lambda...
I still have some missfires on 3krpm with low MAP numbers on 1.05, but on 1.00 works ok... Maybe the coil dwell time will fix this situation, alto I would like to make CDI to be sure...
(http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/705000-705999/705337_244_full.jpg)