Hi there,
I purchased a 2nd hand PnP VEMS v3.3 and have installed it on my Mk1 VW Golf 2.0 ABF 16v Turbo. The former owner has written a lot of info about the assembly here: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FBasilDaham%2FCordobaSX (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FBasilDaham%2FCordobaSX) so this should fill most of you in. The car runs wastespark Bosch VW coil with the factory ignitors removed.
As you'll see in the link above, it uses a multitooth 60-2 trigger wheel, which is standard on this engine and located inside the engine on the crankshaft.
When we first installed the computer, the car ran ok, but with a weak spark. After a few starts, the crank signal started to become intermittent: it would appear and then disappear and the car would run and then fail to run without the signal. Eventually, the RPM signal disappeared entirely and "trigger errors" showed up on Megatune. After checking all the grounds (all fine) and everything else, we decided it must be a hardware problem, so sent the ECU back to Hungary where said it showed signs of damage and replaced the board.
To cut a long story short, I now have the ECU back and at first had no crank signal. I decided to pull the harness out of the car and redo all of the grounds to make entirely sure they were ok. After doing this and replacing the crank angle sensor (just to make extra sure) the RPM signal returned. However, the ECU had come back with the 1.0.73 firmware installed and this resulted in no spark. Not being entirely sure how to fix it with all the config. stuff (I'm not used to ECUs that are so DIY), I reloaded the 1.0.53 which the VEMS was previously running. I rebooted the ECU and then the car almost started.
Since this point, the RPM signal has become intermittent again:
- It jumps to 250rpm under cranking and back to 0rpm all the time: signal, no signal, signal, no signal. Sometimes cranking, it'll only register a signal once, the rest of the time nothing shows up on the RPM gauge and the trigger errors symbol appears again on the Megatune.
I have a new mainboard, new crank sensor, perfect grounds and a car that was running fine - WHAT THE HECK IS GOING IN?! Is it a firmware problem, perhaps? And if so, how I do fix it as I really don't understand the firmware side of things at all!!
I've been trying to get this car running properly for months. My next to step is to pull the ECU and vit an Autronic, but I want them VEMS to work out of principle - plus it seems like a good, user-friendly unit.
Please help!!! :'(
What sort of voltage are you getting during cranking? If you put your meter onto ACV and measure across the sensor's pin you should see a sustained value.
It has about 3.5-3.85v coming out under cranking and a 12v supply going in :) Thanks
ABF use Hall type sensor for 60-2 wheel.
I am not sure about OE supply voltage for this sensor (if 12V, it goes through protection inside digifant unit), but I never use 12V supply because it is not free from transient voltage spikes which can easily kill sensor.
3.85V looks like voltage from VEMS unit. Every teeth must pull down this voltage close to 0V. When cranking voltmeter must read about half of 3.85.
Gints
So perhaps we're wanting to use the 5V supply from the VEMS to drive this? Or some form of controlled supply.
Thanks for your replies. I'll test the voltage again when I have time at the end of the week and report back with the findings. In the standard ABF engine, the sensor gets a 12v supply as well so I'm assuming this isn't the problem, but you never know.
The car did run ok when I first installed the VEMS, but there was a very weak spark.
What is the quickest and easiest way to change the sensor supply back to 5v? The 5v supply pin on my vems currently isn't used, shall I just go this way?
Thanks again :)
My suggestion is check both new and replaced sensor first.
Easiest way to do is move some piece of steel against sensor and during this watch what do voltage in signal wire (igntion ON, sensor attached). It must drop close to 0V from reference value (voltage when sensor is not attached - >3V).
If both sensors are OK, then this is not the reason.
BTW inside VEMS exist from spikes and noise protected 12V. But no 12V pin to outside normally.
Gints
Thankyou for the sensor testing idea, we hadn't thought of that! I'll have a good look at the car again tomorrow and report back :)
Also, the Megatune ALS light has been on from the first install of the unit... how do I disable it?
Quote from: Valver. on June 17, 2008, 09:54:10 AM
Also, the Megatune ALS light has been on from the first install of the unit... how do I disable it?
In Megatune
"extras"-"advanced ALS", input channel used must be disabled.(in the dropdown menu) ;)
Just for the record, I've connected the sensor to the VEMS 5v supply (rather than 12v) and also sent the signal wire direct to the primary trigger pin. Now the only crank sensor wiring going through the PnP harness is the ground wire.
I haven't had to time to remove the current sensor to test its operation (as described in the process above) but will do so asap.
For now, the problem still exists: The car gets a crank signal and tries to start (gets spark), but then the RPM gauge drops back to 0rpm and the spark is obviously cut. A few seconds later the RPM gauges registers a signal whilst still cranking and the car tries to start again, before the signal again disappears!!!!!!!!!! It is so frustrating ::)
It sounds like the spark is causing the signal to drop out. It may be possible that the ground voltage rises enough to 'deafen' the trigger.
What happens with the spark disconnected? Does the cranking RPM remain consistant? Can you datalog these experiments so that we can get an idea of what the ECU is doing?
Thanks
Rob
Quote from: [email protected] on June 18, 2008, 12:46:57 PM
It sounds like the spark is causing the signal to drop out. It may be possible that the ground voltage rises enough to 'deafen' the trigger.
What happens with the spark disconnected? Does the cranking RPM remain consistant? Can you datalog these experiments so that we can get an idea of what the ECU is doing?
Thanks
Rob
You may well be right - I'll try this tonight :) One other suggestion I've had is to disconnect the alternator which I'll also try out.
What I don't understand is why the signal is sometimes perfect, sometimes intermittent and sometimes non-existent. It is an absolute mystery to me!
Quote from: Valver. on June 18, 2008, 11:59:27 PM
What I don't understand is why the signal is sometimes perfect, sometimes intermittent and sometimes non-existent. It is an absolute mystery to me!
Its a mistery to me too ??? Intermittent faults are a pig to solve, it could be anything from the condition of the: wires, sensor, battery, ecu location. The fact that the ECU showed signs of damage when it was sent back to Hungary is of concern, did they actually tell you what was wrong?
Quote from: [email protected] on June 19, 2008, 08:09:53 AM
Quote from: Valver. on June 18, 2008, 11:59:27 PM
What I don't understand is why the signal is sometimes perfect, sometimes intermittent and sometimes non-existent. It is an absolute mystery to me!
Its a mistery to me too ??? Intermittent faults are a pig to solve, it could be anything from the condition of the: wires, sensor, battery, ecu location. The fact that the ECU showed signs of damage when it was sent back to Hungary is of concern, did they actually tell you what was wrong?
Good question, Rob! In effect, all they said was board replacement is necessary to guarantee troublefree operation and so that's the way I went. They did seem to think it showed signs of damage, but didn't elaborate more than that - perhaps I'll ask Katalin for more info (?)
I just cranked the engine with the alternator disconnected and then with the coil unplugged and it made no difference (same problems with the signal). I've tested one of the sensors and it appears to be working fine as well. Whilst waving the steel past it, the fuel pump was running as it should too.
It makes no sense at all. I've asked some of the best ECU contacts we have in Australia and all of them are baffled. All I can do now is reinstall the distributor and try and start the car that way, bypassing the crank trigger altogether... Surely, it'll work then!?
But what settings you use? Firmware? Megatune version?
Yesterday I put VEMS on car where 36-1 was installed, but my settings was for 60-2. symptoms was about similar a s yours.
Gints.
I'm using 1.0.53 with Megatune 2.25, with the following primary trigger settings (the car has run with this exact setup, but the spark was relatively weak):
Edge: Rising
Type: Multitooth
Filtering: Disabled
Advanced filtering: Disabled
Special N-1: Disabled
Fiat Stilo: Disabled
TDC after trigger: 60
Number of teeth on wheel: 58
Trigger tooth: 3
Next trigger tooth: 30
Crank min period: 3744 usec
Angular width of tooth: 2
Tooth relation Normal: 122 (irrelevant with multitooth advanced filter disabled)
Tooth relation Missing: 181 (irrelevant with multitooth advanced filter disabled)
Angular width of missing teeth: 6
Engine phase: 240
It's also worth pointing out that when I first got my new ECU back, it came with 1.0.73 and the RPM signal counted fine but there was no spark or fuel coming through. I don't understand all the config files, so I reloaded the 1.0.53 firmware, which counted RPM ok for a while, but then it became intermittent very quickly. When it counts, I have spark, an the injectors are firing fine.
I think I'll just reinstall the distributor and use that for the primary trigger: The previous owner of the ECU said he doesn't have a tested config file for this setup, though, and I have no idea how to write one... :'(
Is it worth checking my board is soldered correctly for my setup as described here on the Wiki?
v3.3 (trig1) primary trigger=HALL
solder JP2 & JP7: this is the top right of the 2x3 header; red on the [image]. The same area of v3.3 looks slightly different (no bottom-right pad, where the blue jumper sits on the image), but never mind. The primary trigger is the same, the changes are at the secondary trigger, eg. 1 throughole pin dropped, and R48 moved to bottom.
short SJ2
do NOT short SJ6 (remove the blob if there)
R30=2k7 pullup resistor (2k .. 4.7k). Note that 10k is a bit too high
remove R56(=18k, next to SJ2). This is not necessary if R30 is 4k7 or lower.
measure DC voltage between SJ2 and GND (with board powered, but HALL sensor not connected or inactive): must be higher than 3V
If I take a photo of the board, could someone confirm it is setup properly?
I've just probed the primary trigger pin at the VEMS to check the crank sensor whilst turning the engine over slowly by hand: it's moving from 3.5V down to 0.05V at each tooth consistently, so I assume this is fine aswell.
If I change the 'Primary trigger' option at the top of the primary trigger table in Megatune from number '1' to any other number, thus setting it to 'coil-type' ignition (as I understand it anyway), and disconnect the injectors and coil, the car will count RPM consistently, but the readings are obviously jumping around and are very high. In any case, though, the VEMS is getting a signal.
So, in short, I have a good crank signal consistently, but intermittent RPM readings from the VEMS when it is correctly set to a multitooth trigger.
There must surely be something wrong with the configuration of the ECU or the maps?!
There is no one in my country that knows anything about this ECU which makes things even harder. All our local ECUs (Autronic, Motec, Wolf3d etc) don't need modifications to the board or configs drawn up to suit individual setups, so no one (myself included) understands how to do any of this!! And, what's more, the configuration or soldering of the board is about all that's left to be affecting my car :(
Does anyone else have any more ideas before I throw it in the bin? >:( :-\ :'( We have tried for months to get it to work and I am now out of patience :(
Hi,
I'd upload 1.0.73 into the ECU then reconfigure the H tables (I think)
They're basically the inj? and coil firing orders, the notation changed after .53.
There's a post on here about how to do the changes :)
http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=120.0 (http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=120.0)
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Thanks Gavin,
I'm not entirely sure about editing the tables.txt files so they work, though... when my ECU first came back with 1.0.73, I had no spark or fuel...?!
I am terribly bad with computers, which is making this DIY upgrade stuff so much harder :P
Hi,
You can edit the h tables in MT so no problem there. Just download you current tables then upgrade to .73 and upload your tables. Then edit the injector outputs and ignition outputs in the settings menu in MT. I think the description in that post covers it :)
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Well, that didn't go too well... Now my firmware has gone haywire and neither 1.0.73, nor 1.0.53 will upload.
Whenever I go to generateconfig.bat, I get a 'no hello from AVR message', the same thing when I try to upload either firmware :'(
When I first uploaded the 1.0.53 again, I skipped the steps of generate and downloadconfig.bat, so I'm sure this can't have helped either. I just don't understand this stuff, but am beginning to realise that this has to be firmware problem as all the mechanical and electrical side of things is fine (as is the crank wave signal on the oscilliscope).
How the hell do I make this work now... now my VEMS powers up fine and gives the 1.0.53 firmware message, but the LCD goes mad after that and shows its readings in repeated rows (the RPM line runs repeatedly down the screen for example) . The controller code doesn't match the Megatune software now either, so I also can't connect properly to that.
I have obviously further corrupted the firmware, but how do I fix it now? This whole process makes me feel very old and technologically stupid.
I do have copies of the following tables:
Config:
primep=0A
primep_temp_scaling=00
cwl=46
cwh=10
cranking_thres=03
awev=14
awev_temp_scaling=0A
awec=2A
warmup_clt_range[0]=00
warmup_clt_range[1]=10
warmup_clt_range[2]=24
warmup_clt_range[3]=38
warmup_clt_range[4]=50
warmup_clt_range[5]=64
warmup_clt_range[6]=78
warmup_clt_range[7]=8C
warmup_clt_range[8]=AA
warmup_clt_range[9]=C8
warmup_clt[0]=8C
warmup_clt[1]=8C
warmup_clt[2]=8C
warmup_clt[3]=82
warmup_clt[4]=7F
warmup_clt[5]=7B
warmup_clt[6]=77
warmup_clt[7]=72
warmup_clt[8]=6D
warmup_clt[9]=64
warmup_rpm_scale=CC
req_fuel=50
divider=01
alternate=13
injopen=00
battfac=13
kpafac=96
kpaoffs=80
injocfuel=2A
injrampup_battfac=FF
injpwm=FF
injpwmt=0A
als_launch_input=0F
rpmk[0]=0B
rpmk[1]=B8
tpsdot_kpadot_conf=00
tpsdotrate[0]=03
tpsdotrate[1]=0A
tpsdotrate[2]=14
tpsdotrate[3]=1E
tpsaq[0]=00
tpsaq[1]=0A
tpsaq[2]=14
tpsaq[3]=1E
als_cut_mintps=3B
tpsasync=06
acmult=8C
tpsacold=28
launch_enrich=33
launch_retard=60
overrun_fuelcut=64
overrun_fuelresume=64
rev_limit=4E
airden_ignore=00
config11=31
config12=40
config13=02
batt_cal=BC
fastidle=FC
als_max_cut=00
dbaro=0C
tps_low=00
tps_high=FF
fan_temp=5F
fan_hyst=05
fan_channel=FF
iac_step_seq=C9
iac_conf=58
iac_max_steps=FF
iac_tps_thres=1A
iac_cold_idle_temp=7E
iac_warm_idle_temp=C6
iac_cold_rpm=78
iac_warm_rpm=50
iac_cold_start_pos=B3
iac_warm_start_pos=4D
iac_afterstart_rpm=0A
iac_afterstart_duration=00
iac_speed=04
iac_kp=14
iac_ki=0A
iac_kd=0A
launch_rpm=64
iac_integral_limit_dec=32
iac_integral_limit_inc=32
iac_integral_deadband=14
iac_deadband=1E
als_cut_maxtps=80
iac_overclose_interval=80
iac_ref_pos[0]=FF
iac_ref_pos[1]=FF
iac_ref_pos[2]=F2
iac_ref_pos[3]=E6
iac_ref_pos[4]=D9
iac_ref_pos[5]=CC
iac_ref_pos[6]=B3
iac_ref_pos[7]=A6
iac_ref_pos[8]=99
iac_ref_pos[9]=8C
iac_sol_channel=70
iac_ign_slope=28
softrpm_range=4B
iac_ign_advance_limit=20
iac_ign_retard_limit=20
iac_ign_threshold=08
ego_conf=06
ego_lag=01
ego_coolant=B4
ego_maxtps=E6
ego_maxmap=00
ego_minrpm=06
ego_maxrpm=49
ego_warmup=3C
ego_lean_limit=00
ego_rich_limit=00
ego_pid_kp=28
als_enrich=1A
ego_delta=00
ego_target=19
ego_pid_window=FF
wbo2_warmup_ramp=A0
als_react_tps=99
wbo2_abs_limit=E4
wbo2_limit_maxt=A0
wbo2_fallback=B0
wbo2_retry_t=06
wbo2_edgetime_corr=BA
wbo2_edgetime_min=50
wbo2_ri_target=96
wbo2_nernstdc_target=85
wbo2_pump_pw_zero=68
wbo2_calibration=A8
wbo2_heater_pid_kp=46
wbo2_heater_pid_ki=10
wbo2_heater_pid_kd=1A
wbo2_heater_pid_ilimit=80
wbo2_pump_pid_kp=15
wbo2_pump_pid_ki=4E
wbo2_pump_pid_kd=00
wbo2_pump_pid_ilimit=84
wbo2_ri_confidence_scale=80
knock_conf=00
knock_sampling_window=28
knock1_frequency=29
knock1_gain=00
knock1_integrator=0F
knock2_frequency=29
knock2_gain=00
knock2_integrator=0F
knock_threshold=FF
knock_noise_scale=FF
knock_max_retard=00
knock_default_retard=00
knock_retard_step=00
knock_retard_delay=00
knock_advance_step=00
knock_advance_delay=00
knock_minrpm=FF
knock_maxrpm=FF
ve_learn_coolant=D8
ve_learn_max_power=FF
ve_learn_rpm_scale=1E
ve_learn_kpa_scale=1E
ve_learn_ego_scale=43
ve_learn_min_weight=4D
ve_learn_speed=FF
ve_learn_limit=33
ve_learn_conf=00
lcd_c0=FF
lcd_delay=FF
lcd_backlight=FF
kpa_conf=22
ign_balance=50
als_retard_mintps=3B
als_retard_maxtps=80
lcd_default_view=00
primary_trigger=01
secondary_trigger=02
tooth_wheel=3A
trigger_tooth=03
another_trigger_tooth=1E
crank_minper=EA
tooth_wheel_twidth1=02
tooth_wheel_twidth2=06
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=01
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=02
reset_engphase_after=F0
ign_tdcdelay=78
ign_dwell14=1F
ign_dwell6=38
ign_crank_advance=14
ign_out=70
ignchmax=03
engine_off_delay=0F
pump_on_mintime=0B
fuelpump_channel=57
inj_stage2_rate=FF
inj_stage2_start_tps=FF
inj_stage2_start_map=00
als_deact_rpm=0A
als_deact_time=05
als_deact_egt=00
als_retard=F0
als_rev_limit=64
misc1out_minrpm=01
misc1out_maxrpm=FF
misc1out_mintps=FF
misc1out_maxtps=FF
misc1out_minmap=00
misc1out_maxmap=00
misc1out_channel=FF
misc2out_minrpm=FF
misc2out_maxrpm=FF
misc2out_mintps=FF
misc2out_maxtps=FF
misc2out_minmap=00
misc2out_maxmap=00
misc2out_channel=FF
act_wot_rpm=FF
act_wot_channel=FF
act_rpm_rpm=FF
act_rpm_channel=FF
egt1_cal=47
als_tks_channel=FF
boost_conf=00
boost_targetoffs=00
boost_minpressure=80
boost_pid_kp=20
boost_pid_ki=80
boost_pid_kd=01
boost_pid_ilimit=FF
boost_channel=FF
water_pump_temp=00
hybrid_rpm_a=00
hybrid_rpm_m=00
water_pump_hyst=00
water_pump_channel=FF
toothrel_normal=7A
toothrel_missing=B5
fuelcut_min_kpa=0A
fuelcut_max_kpa=7D
tach_channel=07
tach_div=10
shiftcut_conf=01
shiftcut_channel=FF
shiftcut_time=00
softrpm_rpm=4B
Tables:
j[0]=6580 6580 6580 6680 6780 6880 6980 6980 6B80 6980 6280 5B80
j[1]=6480 5D80 5B80 5F80 6580 6880 6980 6880 6C80 6D80 6780 5E80
j[2]=6380 5B80 5980 5E80 6380 6780 6980 6880 6D80 6D80 6980 6180
j[3]=6380 5980 5680 5980 6180 6480 6680 6680 6B80 6F80 6B80 6380
j[4]=6380 5980 5880 5880 5F80 6280 6580 6580 6A80 6F80 6D80 6480
j[5]=6480 5F80 5A80 5A80 5E80 6180 6380 6580 6A80 6F80 6E80 6780
j[6]=5F80 5F80 5C80 5B80 6080 6380 6480 6780 6B80 7180 7080 6980
j[7]=6580 6280 5C80 5C80 6080 6480 6880 6C80 7380 7680 7580 6C80
j[8]=6F80 6B80 6880 6380 6380 6780 6B80 6F80 7780 7A80 7980 7080
j[9]=7880 7680 6E80 6A80 6880 6B80 7080 7680 7C80 8080 8080 7880
j[A]=8580 8380 7F80 7B80 7A80 7D80 8180 8680 8B80 8E80 8C80 8480
j=8E80 8D80 8B80 8880 8780 8A80 8D80 8E80 9380 9680 9580 8F80
l[0]=3D 36 2F 2F 2F 2F 2F 2F 2F 2F 2F 2F
l[1]=37 34 31 31 31 31 31 31 31 31 31 31
l[2]=37 36 31 31 31 31 31 31 31 31 31 31
l[3]=37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37
l[4]=37 37 43 47 4F 4F 4F 4F 4F 4F 4F 4F
l[5]=47 47 4F 55 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58
l[6]=66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66
l[7]=6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B
l[8]=6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B
l[9]=6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B
l[A]=6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B
l=6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B
n[0]=D0 08 08 30 68 A0 BC BC BC C0 C0 C4
n[1]=40 08 08 34 68 98 BC BC BC C0 C0 C4
n[2]=40 08 08 38 70 94 BC BC BC C0 C0 C4
n[3]=40 14 14 40 78 94 A8 B0 B0 B8 B8 C0
n[4]=40 1C 1C 4C 7C 94 94 A0 9F A8 B0 B8
n[5]=2C 2B 2B 4C 78 8C 94 88 88 90 94 9C
n[6]=2C 38 38 48 70 74 78 70 70 78 7C 7C
n[7]=2C 38 38 44 68 6C 70 68 68 70 74 74
n[8]=2C 38 38 3B 54 58 5C 54 53 5C 60 64
n[9]=2C 30 30 34 48 48 4C 48 44 48 4C 54
n[A]=2C 30 30 2B 30 30 30 28 28 2C 30 30
n=2C 1C 1C 18 10 10 0C 08 08 0C 10 10
k[0]=0A 0F 14 1C 22 28 2B 3C 4B 5F 78 96
r[0]=07 08 0C 11 18 1E 23 28 32 3C 46 52
h[0]=02 08 10 41 00 00 00 80
h[1]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
h[2]=01 02 01 02 04 05 06 07
b[0]=14 18 1C 20 24 28 2C 30 80 80 80 80
t[0]=21 40 60 80 A0 C0 E0 FF
Hopefully these aren't now corrupted aswell :(
I've just remembered something and I now believe I may know the problem:
When we first connected up the VEMS, the car ran, but the pins in the ECU plugs were very worn and barely connecting, so we found that pressing them against the unit would keep the engine running (we have now repinned the both plugs, though).
HOWEVER: Prior to replacing the pins, I connected the VEMS to the laptop in attempt to find the problems, BUT, I was using the Megasquirt version of the software (as I understood it was the same - yes I am stupid, I know). An error message came up saying the controller and VEMS codes didn't match, that it was "usually a very serious problem; table corruption may occur", silly me proceeded ON A NUMBER of occasions and, until now, I haven't twigged that after that, the car has never run - the RPM signal has been intermittent or nonexistent the whole time. It was a bit iffy before, but I am certain this was only because the pins were terribly connected.
So... what do I do now, have I completely stuffed everything?! If any of you very cluey people can help, I'm more than willing to PayPal you some money for proper assistance in getting it fixed (if this is even possible!!) - it's certainly cheaper than buying a new ECU.
Does this all make sense and would it fit with the problems I've been having?
Thankyou again - you're all very helpful :) And sorry for my stupidity. I am 64 and just don't understand much of anything that doesn't have carbs :D
If firmware corrupted, it is possible to switch VEMS in special bootloader mode: shorten pins 2 and 3 on 9pin female connector and then switch on ignition and attach serial cable. Beside you must change -wtE to -wE inside upload-firmware12x12.bat or upload-firmware.bat whatever used for sending firmware to VEMS. (right click on file -> edit. edit ->file->save). And then send firmware using this file.
Another method here: http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=209.0
And every time use only Megtatune for given firmware! It is important!
You can find package here: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MegaTune
Gints
Hi,
You're not alone with this, I'm one for not reading the instructions throughly and usually have to spend hours putting something right, just to get back to the beggining ::)
Try this for size... http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=209.0 (http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=209.0)
I've not had any firmware issues so that topic is the best help I can offer, however there's 2 or 3 successful outcomes reported :)
As posted above always use the MT that comes with the firmware package you uploaded into the ECU, that error message is telling you they don't match, even though it doesn't say as much! ::)
Personally I would now upload 1.0.73final firmware as this seems to be the best offering at the moment ;)
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Thanks :) I've tried uploading the 1.0.73 (and the .53), but I now keep getting a "no hello from AVR" message.
I'm assuming that if I try to upload after performing the modification to the serial cable that it will be ok, though?
Can someone tell me, though, whether my using of the wrong Megatune has corrupted my tables, though, and is this potential my RPM signal problem??
In any case, I'll again to upload the firmware and report back (where do I find the pin-outs for the serial cable, so I know which ones to bridge, though?)
Because of "no hallo from AVR" you need this special mode.
For some reason this is common situation. At least for me. May be my USB-serial adapter is cause.
Pin numbers is on connector. Magnifying glass can be needed.
Or ask goolgle for DB9 pinout:
(http://max8888.orconhosting.net.nz/images/computer/fc/db9--pinout.gif)
Another thing:
On 1.0.73 I use Angular width of tooth = 120 and 240 for missing teeth. It is unintelligible values copied from someones configurations for 60-2. On newer 1.1.x firmwares it is clearer - [degrees*4].
Gints
Hi,
I don't know if it could be the cause of the RPM problem, but as you stand at the moment you need to get the ECU up and running so go with the serial port bridging then get your firmware and tables uploaded ;)
By bridging the 2 pins on the serial port you are taking the ECU into the bootloader sequence, which is what the factory use to clear the ECU and upload the initial firmware.
The only way you'll be able to tell if the tables have been corrupted is to upload them into the ECU and see if they work, as far as I know....
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Hi all,
Good news so far: I managed to get the 1.0.73 back on and the RPM signal has returned, but my fuel and spark have gone again. I'm assuming my setup doesn't suit the new firmware.
I have absolutely no idea how to check and/or edit the configuration where applicable, can someone please provide me with an idiots guide to doing so... or is there anything I can post up here that will help you all out any further?
Thanks again to all who continue to offer assistance - we are hugely grateful to you 8)
on 1.0.53 to 1.0.73 they made a change so that the stepper motor could easily be used to drive the igniter packs, so they moved the h[2] thing around a bit, you need to change the value in tables.txt:
h[2]=01 02 01 02 04 05 06 07
to
h[2]=10 20 10 20 10 20 10 20 (repeating the same number pattern is said to be a good thing to do - why? Who knows?)
If you then save the file and use generate-config12x12WithDefaults.bat the program will pull in all the other configlet files so ensure that the WBO2 settings are correct and that the new ALS is turned off.
This should return your spark - as for why fuel has gone... thats something I'm not sure about, lets get the spark back first then do the other bits next.
Ignition/stepper outputs problem is easy to solve using Megatune for 1.0.73.
Under Advanced->H2,checkthat all these settings are 0. Everywhere must be Ign or 0.
Gints
Thanks :) I'll edit these things tonight and post my results.
Well... the RPM signal has now disappeared again >:( I changed the spark config as described by Rob (spark still didn't return, though) and RPM was counting ok for a while. Now it has practically gone, though, and only registers a quick reading on occasion.
I really don't know if I can take anymore of this :'(
Well its beginning to look all very strange, where did you get with the information regarding the damage that had happened to the system reported by Hungary?
Quote from: [email protected] on June 25, 2008, 12:40:04 PM
Well its beginning to look all very strange, where did you get with the information regarding the damage that had happened to the system reported by Hungary?
Hi Rob,
Prior to sending the ECU to Hungary, the crank sensor power and earth wires had broken their sheathes (heat) and grounded together and I understand that had damaged something.
Prior to that, and now the ECU is back with a new board, there is no way anything could be damaged as all the grounds are perfect :(
I just really doesn't make sense...
At the end of the day, what can I do now? I really don't see what else can be checked - and I'll put money on it, the RPM signal will still come back intermittently!
I can't morally sell the setup because it doesn't work and I have been trying 6 months to get this car to start!
What options are left for me, apart from quite literally throwing the VEMS away?!
It really has to be a configuration problem: the trigger settings are fine, the crank signal is perfect on the scope, we have tested, tested, and re-tested all the grounds and I have a new mainboard - what else is left?! The only other thing is the soldering of the board from what I understand (?) - is it correct for a 60-2 hall sensor? And how do I check? Surely this and/or the config can be all that's left.
Is there anyone I can send the VEMS to that can write me a fresh config for my setup, plus check everything over?!
Hi,
Where in the world are you, please?
Someone nearby may be able to take a look for you....
Cheers,
Gavin :)
I'm in Australia :-\
What car is it? I'll see if I can find a known good config.
The engine is from a SEAT Ibiza Cupra 2.0 16v, which is the same as a VW Golf Mk3 2.0 16v GTI, and it's been turbocharged. The engine code prefix is "ABF"
Just as an overview, it uses a hall-type 60-2 trigger wheel and the secondary trigger function is disabled. It's wasted spark igntion using a common Bosch VW/Audi coil. I am also curious about something else with the setup: the previous owner removed the factory ignitor from the coil he supplied... the has run like this, but how exactly does this work?
Thanks Rob - if only you lived nextdoor :D
It's also worth pointing out that even when the RPM counts under cranking, it never really rises above 250rpm - thus stays in the red zone of the tacho in Megatune. This is the case even when I have the car jumped to another vehicle or connected my monster 1100cca Optima D31M back-up battery.
This is the engine as I have assembled it - it looks nice, it just won't run :P
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/H8SV8S/1976%20Mk1%20Project%20Carbon/atwork3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/H8SV8S/1976%20Mk1%20Project%20Carbon/Car019.jpg)
Hello, I cant fix all of your problems because you have some "euro" parts I have never physically seen. (ABF Hall crank sensor, the coil) But I work on mostly VW's and I have 2 VEMS running om ABA/16v engines now. In the USA they use a magnetic sensor for the crank. So the trigger wheel is something that the VEMS should be able to run perfectly.
The ABA(2.0 8v) and VR6 ignition coils have an Ignitor that can be removed. This is fine as long as the VEMS ignition is set up for it. For no ignitor you want to use the VEMS "12v Power, or IGBT" instead of "Logic Level"
It is important to know that the "12v Power" outputs have their own pins in the EC36 connector. So for example you cannot just change from "logic level" to "12v Power" in the software, you must move a wire.
If you have a websho assembled ECU, let us know your ignition configuration from your order information (how many ignition drivers: 8, 4, 2). Then look at PhatBobsUserGuide to check that the correct wires are being used for those outputs.
About the tach in Megatune, 250 RPM is about right for cranking, and the red zone can be changed in the Megatune .ini file. But it's (the red) not hurting anything.
Quote from: lugnuts on June 27, 2008, 01:57:57 PM
Hello, I cant fix all of your problems because you have some "euro" parts I have never physically seen. (ABF Hall crank sensor, the coil) But I work on mostly VW's and I have 2 VEMS running om ABA/16v engines now. In the USA they use a magnetic sensor for the crank. So the trigger wheel is something that the VEMS should be able to run perfectly.
The ABA(2.0 8v) and VR6 ignition coils have an Ignitor that can be removed. This is fine as long as the VEMS ignition is set up for it. For no ignitor you want to use the VEMS "12v Power, or IGBT" instead of "Logic Level"
It is important to know that the "12v Power" outputs have their own pins in the EC36 connector. So for example you cannot just change from "logic level" to "12v Power" in the software, you must move a wire.
If you have a websho assembled ECU, let us know your ignition configuration from your order information (how many ignition drivers: 8, 4, 2). Then look at PhatBobsUserGuide to check that the correct wires are being used for those outputs.
About the tach in Megatune, 250 RPM is about right for cranking, and the red zone can be changed in the Megatune .ini file. But it's (the red) not hurting anything.
Thanks for your reply :) The ABA/ABF crank sensor thing is something I've been very curious about: the sensors are the same (same VW p/n and everything), but apparently the ABF is a hall sensor and the ABA/ADY/AGG etc 2.0 8vs are VR sensors?!
Is it worth me trying a configuration for a VR sensor instead then?
thats bizarre if it is the same part number. is the connector rectaangular, or is it "D" shaped like the MK4?
If it is rectangular, use an ohm-meter on pins 1 and 2, you should get 700-900 ohms or so. if that is the case, and you get infinite ohms to pin 3 from the other pins, then you have yourself a Mag sensor. Take it out, and put the meter on volts. Pins 1 (+) and 2 (-). Put a steel wrench against the sensor while watching the voltage, it will flash positive for a split second. Then take the wrench away from the sensor, it will flash negative.
Theres some internal modifications to do to allow the mag sensor, but if thats what the sensor is then you should be good to go.
Good luck!
It is most definitely a magnetic sensor :)
I want to clarify,that by "mag" I mean a VR or Variable Reluctor sensor.
A Hall sensor is "magnetic" , it will attract a metal object just like a VR sensor will.
Another way to tell a Hall sensor if by the OEM wiring, it will have +5v to +12v power to one pin.
Thanks - well it is a hall sensor then, as it had a 12v supply as standard, but I've now run it through the 5v pin off the VEMS.
The guys in Hungary are trying to help me on the Wiki and want more info (I'm not sure what else I can give, but anyway?!):
Quote from: VEMSThan you need to publish details about your setup IssueReports
for checklist
firmware
mcd / mct dump
logs
etc...
It might be something simple, but publish these first
How does one get the mcd/mct dump info... I don't even know what this is!?
Here is all the info that is on the Wiki about the setup - what more can be offered???
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FBasilDaham%2FCordobaSX%2FTriggerSetup (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FBasilDaham%2FCordobaSX%2FTriggerSetup)
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FBasilDaham%2FCordobaSX (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FBasilDaham%2FCordobaSX)
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FStuFrench (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FStuFrench)
This will be my last week of trying to make this car run with the VEMS anyway - I think 6 months is about enough, my starter, battery and general patience have expired and I've really got nowhere. I don't know that I could ever have faith in the computer after all this anyway. I can just see myself stranded somewhere in the future if the RPM signal decides to disappear again :-\
The mcd and mct info comes from using download-config.bat, these will make config.bat and tables.bat files in the config directory.
Hi,
Is the new board setup for hall or VR? 2.2.5 in the build guide...
That Golf looks fantastic!
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Hi,
I'd carry out this check as even factory manuals have mistakes in them. I'd bench test the sensor with a piece of metal to be absolutely sure, I'm confused as to how a hall sensor and a VR sensor can have the same part number...
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Quote from: lugnuts on June 28, 2008, 05:59:51 AM
thats bizarre if it is the same part number. is the connector rectaangular, or is it "D" shaped like the MK4?
If it is rectangular, use an ohm-meter on pins 1 and 2, you should get 700-900 ohms or so. if that is the case, and you get infinite ohms to pin 3 from the other pins, then you have yourself a Mag sensor. Take it out, and put the meter on volts. Pins 1 (+) and 2 (-). Put a steel wrench against the sensor while watching the voltage, it will flash positive for a split second. Then take the wrench away from the sensor, it will flash negative.
Theres some internal modifications to do to allow the mag sensor, but if thats what the sensor is then you should be good to go.
Good luck!
Quote from: [email protected] on June 29, 2008, 09:53:38 AM
The mcd and mct info comes from using download-config.bat, these will make config.bat and tables.bat files in the config directory.
Thanks Rob: now I can upload these, too :)
Quote from: Bat on June 29, 2008, 10:00:26 AM
Hi,
I'd carry out this check as even factory manuals have mistakes in them. I'd bench test the sensor with a piece of metal to be absolutely sure, I'm confused as to how a hall sensor and a VR sensor can have the same part number...
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Quote from: lugnuts on June 28, 2008, 05:59:51 AM
thats bizarre if it is the same part number. is the connector rectaangular, or is it "D" shaped like the MK4?
If it is rectangular, use an ohm-meter on pins 1 and 2, you should get 700-900 ohms or so. if that is the case, and you get infinite ohms to pin 3 from the other pins, then you have yourself a Mag sensor. Take it out, and put the meter on volts. Pins 1 (+) and 2 (-). Put a steel wrench against the sensor while watching the voltage, it will flash positive for a split second. Then take the wrench away from the sensor, it will flash negative.
Theres some internal modifications to do to allow the mag sensor, but if thats what the sensor is then you should be good to go.
Good luck!
It's setup for a hall sensor apparently :) The sensor is definitely the same part number and definitely had 12v supply as standard (I've even checked this on a stock vehicle to be sure).
Is it at all plausible at a VR sensor could operate as a hall sensor?! In saying this, though, it must be a hall sensor as this is how the previous owner had the VEMS setup ???
It would make a lot of sense if it were a VR sensor... heck, I might aswell try setting the board up for a VR sensor as a last resort, just to see what happens?! The ABF block is effectively an ABA block, though, so I can't believe the sensors would be different - the part number is definitely the same too...
Hi,
No, that's what's bothering me. How are you going to know if you go to VW and buy a new sensor you've got the right one?
A VR sensor is just a coil of wire round a magnet, imagine what you'd do to the ECU if you put 12V into one end and fed the other to the ECU input! :o
A hall sensor has switching electronics in it, hence the need for a power supply...
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Okay... as we had some success with the Citroen I thought I'd try and repeat things by creating a tested 60-2 setup:
Try this:
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSInstalls/VemsMT1.0.73.60-2.zip
Make a backup of your existing setup then upload the firmware and configs from this one.
And we'll see if it solves problems.
Rob
Thanks again to both of you: I've just checked again and the VR and hall sensors definitely have the same part number - strange?! The only explanation I can come up with is that everyone is wrong in thinking that the my particular engine has a hall sensor... But, this being the case, how did the previous owner have the car running and why has it run for me in the past ???
I'll try Rob's new configs tonight.
Cheers :)
Quote from: [email protected] on June 29, 2008, 07:22:04 PM
Okay... as we had some success with the Citroen I thought I'd try and repeat things by creating a tested 60-2 setup:
Try this:
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSInstalls/VemsMT1.0.73.60-2.zip
Make a backup of your existing setup then upload the firmware and configs from this one.
And we'll see if it solves problems.
Rob
Well that was interesting: first of all, again thanks Rob. Secondly, I now have a
perfect crank signal in Megatune - it's remained consisted over multiple cranks aswell, so I truly believe we have solved this side of things now ;D
Secondly, with the new config etc, I only have a spark from cyl's 1 & 4 - it is a very strong spark (in fact, far better than when the car was running), but I obviously need 2 and 3 to jump into the ball game.
I am yet to pull the fuel rail and check for spray from all 4 injectors as this is a fairly time consuming task compared to pulling the plugs.
So, the money question to all you smart people: where to now ??? :D
Well you need to set the ignition outputs to suit the wiring on your car. 1&4 are clearly being driven, You need to identify the pin that 2&3's coil is connected to and set that up in your Settings->Ignition Output screen.
At the moment I'd be running without fuel, if you have been injecting and not firing you may find that your oil level is a little higher that when you last checked - and that its petrol thats caused the rise...
Hi,
I'd move the wire from the coil pack to the correct pin on the VEMs, rather than mess about now you've got a working config ;)
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Quote from: [email protected] on July 02, 2008, 02:25:28 PM
Well you need to set the ignition outputs to suit the wiring on your car. 1&4 are clearly being driven, You need to identify the pin that 2&3's coil is connected to and set that up in your Settings->Ignition Output screen.
At the moment I'd be running without fuel, if you have been injecting and not firing you may find that your oil level is a little higher that when you last checked - and that its petrol thats caused the rise...
I've had the injector multiplug disconnected much of the time, but I'm going to drop the oil this weekend just to protect the bearings from contaminated oil :)
Quote from: Bat on July 02, 2008, 09:03:44 PM
Hi,
I'd move the wire from the coil pack to the correct pin on the VEMs, rather than mess about now you've got a working config ;)
Cheers,
Gavin :)
I'm hearing you :-X I'll have another crack at things over the weekend and report back with my results. Must be getting close now...
I can't remember the setup of what you got there - I just grabbed a setup I knew worked and sent it out - you'll have to set the wideband up, and probably the firing order of injectors and ignition
Quote from: [email protected] on July 02, 2008, 10:23:27 PM
I can't remember the setup of what you got there - I just grabbed a setup I knew worked and sent it out - you'll have to set the wideband up, and probably the firing order of injectors and ignition
I've just edited a few outputs in offline mode and will get in the garage tonight and see how I go :)
Hi,
Beware the ALS that enables itself when you change settings in offline mode! :o
Just Go into anti lag settings and change the channel to disabled ;)
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Good point - if the DisableALS.txt configlet is used when generating the config then the ALS will have no effect on the system as I've set all the values to being impossible to reach (e.g. Min RPM = 25500 Max RPM = 0) but its best to have the ALS input switched to disabled.
Bat,
That moving pic you have in the bottum of your text is just plain annoying :D
Tried changing the spark channels in MT to 10 and 20/Pinouts 33 & 34 to which the coils are wired and have lost spark altogether ???
The H[2] is 10 20 10 20 10 20 10 20 which should be correct aswell. I haven't even got to checking the fuel delivery yet...
What was it before?
Hi,
It may be that the ignition drivers in the ECU aren't fitted to those two pins. As Rob says what were the settings before hand?
Cheers,
Gavin :)
chances are it should be 34 and 36 -
h[2] = 20 30 20 30 20 30 20 30