hi
im currently installing vems on '89 mk3 supra
i started the car but it ran really roughly and sometimes seemed like the ignition is too early as intake valves is still open and i could hear the ignition from the intak efilter...
I use a custom 36-1 trigger wheel and 1.0.73 firmware
I have the TDC set with timing light!
for doublechecking does any one have the coilpack plug picture showing which side is + and -
that is the only thing i could think of generating problems but not sure...
my setup right now...
(http://www.kunn.ee/supra.jpg)
The rpm reads nicely and i get no trigger errors(trigger swapped around does not read rpm)
when i looked at last 3 sparkplugs then it seemed like nr 2 coil was firing randomly...any way to confirm that?
should do trigger log maybe just in case?
grounds are all connected to head so no problems there
thank You!
Is that a wasted spark coil? If so the + will be common on all the coils and the - will be on individual pins.
Use your timing light to strobe the crank wheel - I always put a blob of paint on the front of the pulley so that I can see the rough position of the timing mark in its 3 possible locations.
its 3 individual coils
i have done the timing light thing and that is correct!
here are the config files and one datalog
http://www.ecutec.ee/config.zip
hope that helps
coil plugs are connected 1,6 2,5 3,4
firing order is 1,5,3,6,2,4?
you put timing marks on each fire time so in my case teeth 1, 12, 24 ? that sounds a good idea :)
updated config but same url http://www.ecutec.ee/config.zip
I also added trigger raw log..can someone help to interpet that?
I chekced with timing light again and founf bug :(
coil nr 3 (cyls 3 and 4) fires about 2 times per cycle and that what makes the engine hesitate and rpm go up and down...
the only thing i can figure is bad trigger wheel? but no trigger errors...
bad vems maybe?
I've just run your config up on the test bench - it all looks okay, no double flashes from the LEDs there.
First test I'd try is to move the coils and their firing order in VEMS around to see if the double flash follows the coils.
Second I'd use the trigger signal generator in the tools directory to create a 36-1 signal that you can 'play' the VEMS through your sound card.
Thirdly - wasted spark can confuse some of the more 'intelligent' timing lights, its worth bearing that in mind.
Rob
in this config i moved coil connected to pin 34 to 24 and 35 to 36 for testing and i must doublecheck again but double flash seemed to go from cilinders 2,5 to 3,4
I also tested my vems which is brand new and car ran the same way
also one thing i noticed now with supras vems is that sometimes it gives afterspark while engine is not cranking anymore but fuelpump still on for 1.x seconds ..weird
here is a pic of the custom trigger wheel
http://www.ecutec.ee/hammas.pdf (http://www.ecutec.ee/hammas.pdf)
(http://ecutec.ee/trigger.jpg)
Quote from: ecutec on July 01, 2008, 06:10:06 AM
in this config i moved coil connected to pin 34 to 24 and 35 to 36 for testing and i must doublecheck again but double flash seemed to go from cilinders 2,5 to 3,4
I also tested my vems which is brand new and car ran the same way
also one thing i noticed now with supras vems is that sometimes it gives afterspark while engine is not cranking anymore but fuelpump still on for 1.x seconds ..weird
here is a pic of the custom trigger wheel
what happens if you swap the coil that fires 2+5 with the coil that fires 1+6 and change the ignition outs to suit
- I find it odd that one coil works fine and the others do not.
If it gives an afterspark then you have something triggering the crank sensor only a scope will show you what the ECU is actually seeing. When the pump is running there is the possability that the ground voltage will rise which may be injecting noise into the VR circuitry.
That trigger has huge teeth which can also cause a problem with coil hysteresis causing miss-triggers.
should i machine the teeth so they would be half in size? but first i will try to swap the coils and see if double spark follows the coil
Try the coil move first. Without a scope you'll probably find getting the idea behind the teeth is impossible, most people make teeth too large, getting it right can be a problem.
i tried the coil swap and it was always specific coil doing double spark but im not sure why but i think it is a triggering thing
is there someone here that could convert the trigger log?
i did look with old scope but that shows in real time so i only could check for bad wiring for noise but that seemed ok....did not see the number of slopes to check the correct timing. maybe the log shows different amount of events or sth
When you say it was a specific coil doing the double spark do you mean that the coil sparked twice when moved from 1+6 to 2+5 and 3+4?
Or is it the one coil driver that is sparking twice?
it was always the same coil
whatever output i connected to it...
spark is also pretty small over all coils..maybe they are old and tired? :)
well that suggests that the coil is grounding via another coil...
I've seen things like this when coil packs are wired incorrectly, as one coil earths through another and they both spark as weak as hell.
in that case i could try and unplug other coils and only test the single one?
bosch 3x2 coilpack was ordered so we can throw the old ones away now anyway and see what happens
IF this does not change anything then only things are trigger or wheel itself
i should post the trigger log on wiki so someone can interpet that?
Good luck with anyone taking notice on the wiki, I'd offer to look at it but I can't honestly say it means much to me. I use a 'scope then logical progression to solve my problem.
If the coil sparks twice regardless of the channel and cylinders its connected to then, to me, it looks like the coil is a problem. Can you wire the coils so that you know each one is getting its own individual 12v feed and then each wire to the coil drivers in the VEMS?
The Bosch coils are good, but I'd head down the scrap yard first to see what else I could find, then I'd buy new ones of what I'd proved to have worked. I love the Mitsubishi coil packs, the Ford ones are good and there are loads of other odds and ends you can try. Its all down to if you're in a rush to get things working, or keen to learn how the components in a system fit together.
Rob
hey
yesterday i connected new coilapck and at first the problem was still there with the same channel
then i switched pin 34 to 10 and it was ok...can't get it...BUT the unit got really hot. I opened it up and the fet that was driving mostly driving the double spark coil was fried. Possible that at first the coil somehow damaged the fet and that started opening and closing randomly?
Anyway my friend helped to take out the fet and i did a benchtest at home. It starts up but did not get rpm yet...ok it was late and maybe i overlooked something(2am or sth)
I doublechecked the grounds also..resistance for all was >0,4ohm so probably the tester wires..
resistance of the coil measured from 33, 10,35 was 0,9ohm as supposed
i can't believe its a wiring fault...
As i saw nice spark from all it also should not be the trigger or trigger wheel but i will find out when i finish the benchtest
thanks for help so far Rob!
car is running!:)
things i ran into:
fried two p259 chips on 2 different units-same case with my friend... We had 2 fuelpump relays connected and seems like there too high voltage spikes for a moment (possible?) that burn the chip. in my case both chips left ground connected so FP was on all the time BUT i still got rpm reading :)
IAC was letting air in so could not get to idle and in cooperation with some injector settings + VE table the rpm went from 600-1000 without being able to give any gas
Turnaround was when i managed somehow to get the rpm higher with full throttle and higher req fuel...car started running at 4000 and sounded nice
so shortly in this case things that did couse problems:
old coilpacks?- double spark...
IAC letting air in
too low ve table (need a basic table probably)
2 relays connected to p259
found another problem
after driving around the car started coffing and afr went lean
i did not pay much attention to that before but from the old ecu they used 10ohm 10w resistors for injectors (2.4ohm)
but the resistors got really hot and probably could not handle the current
now i bought a pack of 6.8ohm 50w resistors and will see what happens
because of this issue 1 of the injectors fet's gave up(always open)
mayeb this is helpful for someone in future:)