VEMS Community Forum

Technical => Triggering => Topic started by: d00ze on October 25, 2008, 01:28:18 PM

Title: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 25, 2008, 01:28:18 PM
HI,

I'm having problem with geting the cas to work with vems 3.3. The box is setup for halltrigger.

FW=1.1.18
trigger 24/1 http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=VehicleFitment%2FNissan

config / tables and msq can be found here:
http://www.vems.hu/filethingie.php?action=list&subdir=MembersPage/MaxLarsson/

The problem is that i can only get the vems to show a signal on the rpm scale, when setting the trigger tooth to 3.
When doing this i get a 100rpm reading in MegaTune.

The voltage output on EC36 pin 13 & 27 are 3,9V.

I tried to switched the sensorcabels without luck.

I'm using this instructions from Rob:
http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=397.0

Hoping to get this to work.
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 25, 2008, 02:01:45 PM
A static 100rpm signal is usually caused by the primary and secondary triggers being the wrong way round.

Rob
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: Denmark on October 25, 2008, 04:51:42 PM
Is the Ca18DET triggering stable with VEMS, as i plan to buy a S13 for myself?

/Skassa
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 25, 2008, 06:04:08 PM
I mange to get the trigger working, but not as i thought.
I loaded fw 1.0.36 to the box and set it up as.

Edge=Rising
Edge=Multitooth
nr of teeth=24

The logg can be foun here:
http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/MaxLarsson/logg/ca18det_trigger%20running%20fw1036.xls

Is there something wrong with the 1.1.18 fw that i downloaded vems.hu
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 25, 2008, 08:28:41 PM
If you email me I will send you the 1.1.18 firmware that I have running on a number of Nissans for years
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 25, 2008, 08:29:18 PM
Quote from: Denmark on October 25, 2008, 04:51:42 PM
Is the Ca18DET triggering stable with VEMS, as i plan to buy a S13 for myself?

/Skassa

Yes we have a lot of Nissans running 1.1.18
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 26, 2008, 07:54:22 PM
Tried this fw, without luck. http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSTech/VemsNissanS13.zip
loaded fw, uploaded config.

The rpm won't be displayed.

works fine with fw 1.0.36 and 1.0.73.
when using multitooth or Coil-Type.

Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 26, 2008, 08:34:23 PM
That's worked on enough installs for me to ask if you have things wired correctly
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 26, 2008, 09:55:59 PM
I tried to shift the sensor cables but no reaction. It shows rpm scale with 1.0.x firmware, I dubble checked the wiring against your ecu/vems pinout in the zip file. If the wires are wrong it shuldn't work with the older firmware?
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 26, 2008, 10:49:19 PM
What its showing may not be anything other than the primary trigger count
If you disable the secondary trigger in MegaTune do you get a clean cranking signal on the newer firmware?

Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 27, 2008, 08:45:30 AM
I got signal, without the sencondary trigger activated.
msg file here: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/MaxLarsson/config/ca18det_without_cam_syncfw1118.msq

What to do next?

thnx
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 27, 2008, 10:26:00 AM
What sort of RPM speed are you seeing?

Where did you get the trigger disk from?
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 27, 2008, 10:55:39 AM
I'm geting a rpm reading at 1200rpm with the sparkpluggs disconnected. The disk is a 24/1 disc from Jorgen here in Sweden who sells the vems box.

I have messured the trigger output with an voltmeter. it says 0.10V when not seeing through the disc and 3,9V when seeing. The trigger has worked fine with the orginal ecu. and works on a buddies car when changing triggerdisc to standard.

thnx for helping
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 27, 2008, 02:44:42 PM
So thats a good clean voltage, although 1200rpm does seem a little high, even with the plugs out.

This means we're getting a nice signal on the primary trigger, so the secondary needs looking at, you should be getting one pulse per two revolutions.
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 27, 2008, 06:06:29 PM
Checked the trigger with a oscilloscope, output D=primary trigger gives a stedy signal while cranking.
C=Secondary trigger gives a stedy signal 1 or 2 times when cranking the engine.

If i set the trigger "use value" like the picture. I do get a rpm reading. The rpm reading while cranking is about 1050rpm. but not when Camsync. (http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/MaxLarsson/picture/secondary_trigger_alien.JPG)
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 27, 2008, 07:29:18 PM
I always have the value set in the appallingly titles TODO! should be 0x02 when disabled! to 25, it works with that value and not many others
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 27, 2008, 09:05:45 PM
tried to put the value of 25 in, and the pushed burn to ecu, but then the rpm reading stalls on 100rpm. this is geting wered.  Can I get the car running with  some other configuration setup?
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 27, 2008, 09:35:40 PM
That configuration is the one that I have all the CA18, SR20 and RB25 engines running on, so I don't understand what is happening here that is any different ???
You definately generated-config and uploaded it to the box after uploading the firmware didn't you?
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 27, 2008, 09:50:17 PM
I loaded the fw, then executed "generate-configWithWB02Defaults.bat" the "upload-config.bat" I can make a try with "upload config" if there makes an difference.

thnx for helping me out.
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 27, 2008, 09:55:25 PM
Okay, you have uploaded correctly.
I am pretty much out of ideas in all honesty, Hall either works or it doesn't its not like VR where you can mess around with filters, saying that though Jorgen has seen some very spikey secondary trigger signals.  I'm not sure what he did to combat them, I think he used a capacitor to dampen the noise.
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 28, 2008, 05:31:22 PM
Made som more testing.

Mesured the voltage and Ohm
1,96kohm secondary ign off
3,93V secondary input ign on. trigger disconnected.
0,10V-0,36Vwhen cranking

2,08kohm primary ign off
4,31V Primary input ign on. trigger disconnected
2,86 when cranking

Loggs of the trigger connected to the primarey input. Geting about 250 on the 1teeth ring. and 1050 on the 24teeth ring.

http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/MaxLarsson/config/ca18det_1teeth_ring-con%20primary.xls
http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/MaxLarsson/config/ca18det_24teeth_ring-con_primary.xls

Is the possible the voltage output on secondary trigger is to low? How can I fix this?
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 28, 2008, 06:28:55 PM
You could try a pull-up resistor on the secondary trigger.  If you try a 10K resistor between the input and the VEMS 5V output and read the value when Hall is high (move the engine round until the voltage goes high - as the slot will be in front of the sensor). Decrease the size of the resistor until the value is closer to 4.5 to 5v, then move the engine to a position where the sync pulse is low again to make sure that the pull-up isnt too great - some use a trim pot to achieve the right voltage then measure the resistance once they have the right pull-up voltage.
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: d00ze on October 29, 2008, 06:35:07 PM
Didn't help to pullup the voltage to 4,5V-5V. How can I test the secondary trigger input?
Is there something wrong with my cas? It only triggers when sett to trigger tooth 3 and next triggertooth 6.

Searched the wiki and found out that i might have to remove C103 on the bottom side of the pcb.

Quote
v3.3 Secondary trigger (Trigg2) Hall setup:
remove C103 or replace with 1nF
only necessary if the secondary trigger HALL signal is actually used, but for new installs, best to do it in any case, so this is the standard. Assembled controllers sent out after 2005.12.31 have C103 replaced. If you assembled yourself, or actually use HALL secondary trigger with an assembled controller sent out in 2005

I have to check this one out. since the box were setup for VR sensor before.

If this dosn't work how do I set the config up for wastedspark and COP?
Thinking of runing the engine with the primary trigger only connected.
The COP wold be connected to pin (EC36) 33 34 35 36
Title: Re: Nissan ca18det trigger problem (24/1 triggerdisc)
Post by: [email protected] on October 29, 2008, 09:06:16 PM
If you are setup for secondary VR then, yes, you need to convert the electronics over.

You cannot run on primary trigger alone, there is no missing tooth to synchronise the cycle.

Rob