VEMS Community Forum

Members => Projects & Installs => Topic started by: mini-valver on February 02, 2009, 01:58:12 AM

Title: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 02, 2009, 01:58:12 AM
Right, the ecu has been sent off and found not faulty. The fuel pump doesnt prime and theres no spark, the car just turns over.

I turn the igniton on, the main ECU relay clicks. The white wire to the coil pack has got power, the fuel pump relay has power but doesnt prime (removing the relay and bridging the terminals makes in run constant) but there is no spark and the car will not run. All fuses are fine. What relay doe sthe fuel pump use so I can buy a new one to try? Its asif the standard immobilisor is holding it off but the light on the dash goes out and it cranks over and over. When the immbilisor holds it off, the light stays on and the car will not crank so it's definately un-armed.

Any ideas before I burn it?
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: gunni on February 02, 2009, 02:15:09 AM
What does the laptop tell you?

Are you getting rpm readings.
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 02, 2009, 02:28:03 AM
I cant get COMS. The laptop just times out when I cycle through each COM port.....
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: [email protected] on February 02, 2009, 02:44:25 AM
Hi mate, good to meet you yesterday.
What's are you using in the way of comms?
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 02, 2009, 02:48:37 AM
Yeah, same mate, Shame it was so cold, lol.

Im using a 9-15 pin serial lead (I think thats the pin numbers off the top of my head) and With the lead connected and the page opened, I can cycle and test each COM port, but get nothing back.....
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: [email protected] on February 02, 2009, 03:07:49 AM
You're not using a USB->Serial adaptor then?

Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 02, 2009, 03:10:36 AM
No, straight into the serial port on my laptop as instructed by Ben. I'll try an adaptor though, where can I get one? Needs to be USB>15 pin female though because I dont want to buy another lead, lol.
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: [email protected] on February 02, 2009, 03:37:47 AM
Not an issue its better to have the built-in serial.  15pin is unusual - what model of Laptop do you have?
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: Bat on February 02, 2009, 05:52:33 AM
Hi,
The only 15 pin socket I know of on the back of a laptop is the VGA monitor port?
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 07, 2009, 08:19:26 PM
I've bought a new lead and USB adaptor, it tells me its using COM24 bt when I try to verify the ecu connection on megatune is just says no response. Tried ports 1 through to 30 and there's no response on any of them. Just cranks over. All I did is droveto work and parked up, not started since, thats about 2 months ago now.

What relay will I need to ask for to replace the fuel pump one? Stood on it, lol.
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: gunni on February 07, 2009, 09:17:11 PM
can you get no response from the ecu at all?

No spark
No fuel
No fuel pump relay closing?
Have you checked for 12v @ the ecu input?
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 07, 2009, 10:11:31 PM
No spark but the white cable at the coilpack has power, fuel pump I can make run by removing the relay and bridging the pump feed and live (broke the relay, what relay do I need to buy???). The feed to the ECU from the main relay and 50a(i think) fuse has 12v. So, ECU has power, all the loom has power but it just turns over!

Cant get coms at all with the ECU....
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: gunni on February 07, 2009, 10:25:52 PM
You need to be able to communicate with the ecu before anything else.

If you use the terminal program you can test your own serial port,

Have the ecu disconnected, then at the serial port, bridge pins 2-3 together,
whatever you send out in the terminal program should come straight back.
It´s basically a loop. This is to determine that your serial connection on your laptop is working
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 07, 2009, 11:09:23 PM
The terminal programme?

When you say disconnect the ecu, do you mean from the serial cable and laptop r from the loom in the car? How do I know which pins are 2-3? Sorry if I sound like a retard but I have no real experience with the VEMS and theres no real tech support!
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: Bat on February 07, 2009, 11:12:52 PM
Hi,
Yes disconnect the ECU from the serial cable and then bridge pins 2&3 in the end of the serial cable. Then use the terminal program in the VEMs/tools directory to test the laptops serial port is working.
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 07, 2009, 11:19:08 PM
Ah right, that makes sense! Which pins are 2+3? If Im looking at it with the cable ends in \____/ that position, could you tell me which ones to bridges?

Cheers fella
Dave
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: gunni on February 07, 2009, 11:19:58 PM
This is the sort of things tech support would try and make you do.

I mean have your USB - Serial adapter connected to your laptop but no connection to the
ECU.

(http://students.spsu.edu/auvrobot/Subsystems/Command-Control/com-Interface_files/com-Interface-Serialport.png)

There you can see pins 2 and 3
If you have vista the windows terminal program is not there but you can download one from the VEMS website.
From one of the MegaTune packages, it is in the wintools folder of the package

This is to determine if
A) your serial connection is up and running


Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 07, 2009, 11:24:18 PM
Just unzipped the terminal programme from my VEMS file so Ill have a go at sorting this cable. Back in a sec!
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 07, 2009, 11:33:04 PM
Bridging them and clicking connect, but nothing is happening? Am I being a tool??
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: gunni on February 08, 2009, 12:14:06 AM
Are you trying to send command trough?

You try and send any text , the exact same should turn up on the screen as an input from the serial connection.

Without this it´s hard to say that your serial connection is actually working.
But aside from that.

If you do not get any ignition events and no injection events.

Then assuming the ecu is powered up.
You have no trigger signal at all.


If you have no ignition events but do have injection events

Then the ecu is powered up, your trigger signal is working, the ignition output is faulty.


Can you hear the injectors clicking as you try and start the engine?

You can test to see if the fuel pump relay is getting the signal from the ecu to close, by measuring
continuity on the wire between the relay to the ecu and to ground. There should be no continuity with the car off,
then you should have continuity when you swith to on.

If this is not happening, I´m 99% sure your ecu isn´t getting the right current.
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 08, 2009, 12:26:01 AM
I have the terminals bridged, I'm putting text into the address bar at the bottom of the page but when I press enter to send I just get a chime from the speakers, obviously not connected.

Re. injectors, ill check it all tommorrow, If they dont pulse, the ECU is in fact fucked? Same for the relay, I'll check it when theres some daylight tommorrow. If its not closing, the ECU isn't sending any outputs??
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: gunni on February 08, 2009, 12:44:39 AM
Forget the relay.
It´s not the problem one bit.

If your not able to use the serial bridge trick your serial setup is not working.
Nothing to do with the ecu at all.


You can´t determine the ecu fuked until you actually are able to communicate through your serial port.

I´m more and more sure from the sound of things that something as been disconnected
Either a ground connection or a 12v feed to the ecu.
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: [email protected] on February 08, 2009, 12:51:32 AM
I tested your ECU, you can send it back here and I'll test it again if you think that will help but I wouldn't have waited over an hour last Saturday to meet-up with you to look you in the eye to tell you I'd tested it.

When the ECU gets power, the first thing it does is ground the relay for the fuel pump you will no doubt have heard it prime in the past.
If its not priming, its fairly safe to assume that the ECU is not getting power - or - its getting power and the grounds are in some way compromised.
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 08, 2009, 12:54:56 AM
This is so frustrating, why the hell do things not just work?

I drove to work, parked up and when I came back to the car, it just kept turning over. I haven't personally disconnected anything and the earth is good and tight, the ecu has power (red wire, top right i think of the connector block) so I'm stumped. Obviously thats just monkey terms but I dont know any other way to put it.....

I know the ECU is good, its been tested, it just doesnt want to work?
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 08, 2009, 12:55:42 AM
JUst read your post Rob, Im not disputing that its fine, I just dont know what else to check.
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: Bat on February 08, 2009, 01:03:35 AM
Hi,
When you say the ECU has power, what did you test it with?
If you used a multimeter, check it again with a test light.
A poor connection may show battery voltage with a DMM, but when there's a load on it ( ie test light) you find there's nothing there..
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 08, 2009, 01:08:52 AM
Yeah I used a multimeter, I'll test it again with a test light. The live comes from the main cable I uised to put the battery in the boot so I can see all the fuses, relays and connections in the car, everything looks fine and checks out with the meter, makes no sense!

I could understand if it had cut out but it drove fine, just doesnt start now!
Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: [email protected] on February 08, 2009, 01:14:08 AM
No problems - you get my PM about a possible life line in the shape of Gunni tomorrow?

Title: Re: None starting K4M Clio
Post by: mini-valver on February 08, 2009, 01:20:21 AM
Yeah, just replied mate!  ;D