VEMS Community Forum

Members => Projects & Installs => Topic started by: Pet on September 24, 2010, 01:27:49 pm

Title: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on September 24, 2010, 01:27:49 pm: Hi all,
so my car description:

- Opel Astra F 1996, X16SZR (the default engine, 1.6 8V 55kW :)
- rebuild nr. 1 to C20XE M2.8@turbo - KKK16 turbo + chiped ECU -> very rare setup, but it worked somehow :)
- rebuild nr. 2:

* stock KKK16 turbo, stock tophat
* FMIC, 52mm pipes
* C20XE inlet cam + Vernier pulley
* Woesseners pistons 86.00mm
* H-rods
* F28 6-gear gearbox
* Brembo 4 piston brakes 298x28
* Megasquirt ECU, wasted spark, batch injection

- due spark offset/bad maping the 2 pistons were damaged :(
- rebuild nr. 3 (nowadays is finishing the engine assembling)
* block rebored
* JE Pistons 86.50mm
* crank balanced
* T3 .63/T04e .50 turbo
* external WG
* 70mm downpipe
* Cossi head revised, new seats, bigger exhaust ports
* Regal tophat 60mm
* 630ccm Siemens Deka
* steel flywheel 4.7kg
* Helix 4 paddle clutch + Helix cover plate
* F28 Quaife ATB diff
* Walbro intank pump 255l/h
* Wasted spark now / VW COPs ready to install
* Vems GenBoard v3.6 - nr. 3287
* wish tu run with 1.1.81 FW

* target is 350PS+, 380-400PS is nice to have :]

(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/astra_final_640.jpg)
(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/mrizka_final_s.jpg)
(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/bremboS.jpg)
(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/p2kout1_s.jpg)
(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/setrLET1_s.jpg)
(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/jevswoe_s.jpg)
(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/regal_vs_stock_tophat_s.jpg)
(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/quaife_helix_31kk_s.jpg)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: MWfire on September 24, 2010, 11:41:38 pm: your IC is to small
BTW i have starting map for c20let
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on September 25, 2010, 06:27:06 am: Quote from: MWfire on September 24, 2010, 11:41:38 pm
your IC is to small
BTW i have starting map for c20let

Thanks, yes this IC is relative small (but is 76mm deep and aprox. 6L volume), there is plan to use 600x300x76 one.
Anyway I'll very appreciate any help with config/maps. Pls what's the best injection sequence for C20LET and how to setup it in 1.1.81, I am a bit confused with Vemstune now.

I plan: firing sequence 1-3-4-2
Output 1 - cyl1
Output 2 - cyl2
Output 3 - cyl3
Output 4 - cyl4
Output 5 - Idle valve
Output 8 - Boost valve

Is this correct then? Thanks.

(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/configs/inj_outputs_astra.JPG)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: MWfire on September 25, 2010, 10:59:53 am: put ref table
0
90
60
30

Edge for hall sensor falling

And injector h table
inj 1
inj 2
inj 4
inj 3
And angle 360deg for start.
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on September 25, 2010, 11:57:32 am: Quote from: MWfire on September 25, 2010, 10:59:53 am
put ref table
0
90
60
30

Edge for hall sensor falling

And injector h table
inj 1
inj 2
inj 4
inj 3
And angle 360deg for start.

Thanks, you mean h table looks like ?:
h[0]=01 02 08 04 00 00 00 00
h[1]=00 5A 3C 1E 00 00 00 00
h[2]=00 01 00 01 00 00 00 00 ; edited - for wasted spark 00 - cyl1&4, 01- cyl2&3

and 2nd trigger raw value 24 ?

Note: this is my 2nd trigger

(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/configs/C20XE_triggers.jpg)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: MWfire on September 25, 2010, 02:06:27 pm: h[3]=00 01 00 01
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on September 25, 2010, 05:02:37 pm: Uff now I am totally perplexed with that settings...... Why there isn't any help for reference tooth table and injector firing order in VemsTune ? Are all the tables read from backwards (from bottom) like in old FW's and Megatune ??
So, once again:
- 60-2 + CAM, for now wasted spark
- spark order is : 1-3-4-2
- injection order is : 3-4-2-1 ??OK??

then h[] tables:

h[0] = 01 02 08 04 00 00 00 00 ; out1=cyl1, out2=cyl2....
h[1] = 00 5A 3C 1E 00 00 00 00 ; or it's reversed 1E 3C 5A 00 ????? 60-2 + CAM
h[2] = 00 10 00 10 00 00 00 00 ; 00=I259-0=cyl1&4, 10=I259-1=cyl2&3

h[3-5] is what ??

it means, cycle start with injection to cyl 3 and spark on the cyl2(3) ??? it's strange, isn't it ???

Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: MWfire on September 25, 2010, 09:46:01 pm: in vems tables are read from botton to up.
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on February 27, 2011, 09:10:39 pm: Little up; before end of last year I finished my engine rebuild, some final photos:
Now engine has done about 600km on stock turbo and ECU, new COPs are ready to install.
Hope the weather will be better (warmer:) in short time ;)
Optrand pressure sensor should help with proper tuning...

(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/86.5_go/block_com.jpg)
(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/86.5_go/eng1.jpg)
(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/86.5_go/head_re.jpg)
(http://www.mervart.eu/Vems_profil/86.5_go/head_re1.jpg)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on April 10, 2011, 11:07:58 pm: Litlle up:
COP setup is working for me; I've checked it on scope before. But I am not clever from that settings, see picture bellow. Anyway, car is pulling very well with that settings...

Note: Stepper A = cyl 1, Stepper B = cyl 2 etc., CAM pulse raw 25 (rising edge), inj angles 360deg

(http://www.mervart.eu/fora_imgs/C20LET_COP_settings_working.JPG)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on May 23, 2011, 08:36:00 pm: Litlle up:
one day before tuning day (with Optrand sensor), the main crank bolt was loosen up (when I was checking the exact TDC position, I left E12 socket on the crank and started the engine; engine was running fine, socket was falling to the floor imediately, but bolt was loosen up). Another day, after engine was warming up on idle, I was cruising (around 2500rpm) to my test hill, when trtrtrtrtrtrrrr sound comes...... of course 14 valves dead, as well as valve guides are cracked......bad day.....bad day
(http://www.mervart.eu/head_deads.jpg)

Anyway, I have prepared software for analysing combustion pressure from Optrand sensor, it was already tested on a few engines (fiat 20VT, fiat 1.6 T with good results), small preview: (knock cycle :)

(http://www.mervart.eu/optrand/20vt_phob/punto20vt_ign+5_1bar_run_knock_461.PNG)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: MWfire on May 24, 2011, 10:02:43 am: can you give more details of that program?
I also have optrand sparkplug.
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on May 24, 2011, 10:37:18 am: The idea is simple:
there is MCU circuit generates measuring window (pulse) on required VR wheel positions (for ex. 60BTDC to 60ATDC)
(Vems could generate this pulse, it would be very very very usefull for that way of tuning; anyway now this MCU circuit is de facto only another VR wheel decoder)
- this pulse is sampled simultaneously with another signals - Optrand + IGN + MAP signal + knock signal etc. to PC
- and then the PC software makes the rest - compute crank position, advance, rpm, peak pressure etc.

When I am looking on that description, it looks like very easy, but there is a lot of work on background indeed :)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: MWfire on May 24, 2011, 10:44:32 am: Vems can generates that signal and it's easy to collect signal(i'm doing that with laptop and 3 usb sound card(6ch)).

But what is that program for signal processing(finding PPP)?
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on May 24, 2011, 11:59:32 am: Program is created by using LabView 2009; there are lot of function for analysing signals (waveforms). In my case, I am finding maximum in amplitude (pressure) array -> result is time index, then goes with that index to positon array to read crank position. That's all.
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: MWfire on May 24, 2011, 12:37:51 pm: Quote from: Pet on May 24, 2011, 11:59:32 am
Program is created by using LabView 2009; there are lot of function for analysing signals (waveforms). In my case, I am finding maximum in amplitude (pressure) array -> result is time index, then goes with that index to positon array to read crank position. That's all.
Can you send me code for that in LabView, so i can modified/upgrade?
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on May 24, 2011, 01:59:39 pm: Sorry, in that phase it's not possible - there is a lot of work and money behind. Anyway PM me for details, maybe we can co-operate together in some form.
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on June 12, 2011, 08:25:01 pm: I did dyno run with stock M2.8 atmo chiped ECU, 0.5bar boost, KKK16 stock turbo :
(http://www.mervart.eu/dyno/dyno_astra_M2.8_0.5bar_XE_inlet.jpg)
234PS/293Nm
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on October 04, 2011, 08:53:53 am: Little up,
changes:
- new original GM valve stem gaskets installed (terrible price, 3.8Euro/1pcs :( )
- cometic 1.9mm
- bigger IC (550x300x76) + 60mm pipes (+ optimized, only 1x90 from IC and 1x 45deg bend)
- harder engine mounts - really help a lot to stop moving the engine
- T04E/T3 turbo fitted once again
- new downpipe mounts
- E85
- ready to map on 1bar (probably maximum for 630ccm's Siemens, on 0.8bar@[email protected] PW is around 15.6ms

(http://www.mervart.eu/C20XE/ic_60mm.jpg)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on October 16, 2011, 08:24:08 pm: So on Saturday, we made some real dyno runs (only two, not much time), the best result was 357PS/488Nm
(power dip around 5500RPM is due boost regulation problem, drop from 1.3 to 1.05bar)

(http://www.mervart.eu/!projects/VEMS_astra_t3/dyno/2run_astra_1.25bar_EBC_prob.PNG)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: MWfire on October 16, 2011, 09:22:31 pm: nice, no more knock problems?
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: peter_jensen on October 16, 2011, 10:29:53 pm: Hi Pet

Could you upload a log file of the exact dynorun you did.

I have another version of Virtual Dyno ill like to test/compare to see haw correct it is.

Peter/
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on October 17, 2011, 05:32:54 am: Quote from: MWfire on October 16, 2011, 09:22:31 pm
nice, no more knock problems?

Heh knock neverending story :) Anyway, in area 4000-4900 (where is the boost peak) the pressure waveforms (Optrand) are bumpy. In first run, I had ign lowered in that area (2900-4800) by 2 deg (4200@220kP around 7.5deg only), in second run I added it back and torque was increased by 20Nm (Minimum Advance for Best Torque works IMHO) and waveforms seem better, but still a bit bumpy. In area > 5000RPM all seem ok already (because we added advance there ).
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on October 17, 2011, 05:36:25 am: Quote from: peter_jensen on October 16, 2011, 10:29:53 pm
Hi Pet

Could you upload a log file of the exact dynorun you did.

I have another version of Virtual Dyno ill like to test/compare to see haw correct it is.
Peter/
I don't know, but VD doesn't work on logs captured during rolling dyno testing (because car speed is zero) :/

Edit: here is the log, (fifth gear run)
www.mervart.eu/!projects/astra_t3/dyno/15.10.dyno/15.10.11.AstraF_1.25bar_2nd_run.csv (http://www.mervart.eu/!projects/astra_t3/dyno/15.10.dyno/15.10.11.AstraF_1.25bar_2nd_run.csv)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: gunni on October 18, 2011, 06:39:29 pm: Are you getting knock on other cylinders maybe?

You do effectively have 4 engines in there, the likelyhood of them needing the same advance to reach knock is unlikely or them running the same exact AFR.
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on October 14, 2012, 05:02:32 pm: Litlle up, small test of launch vs speed (Thanks to MWFIRE :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1kkGCd_Elk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1kkGCd_Elk)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on September 17, 2014, 06:20:07 am: Hi, a litlle up after long time :) I make new wiring for VW COP's (modified wiring loom bought from Vems shop). Anyway, car is running well with full sync under aprox 6000-6500, but sometimes I have sec trig errors (Too many sec triggers). Should be a problem with 1.2.17 vs 1.2.19 FW ? I am reading on Wiki, there are some changes around sec ignore option etc ? I am planning to use ignore sec trig = 13 , because my sec trigger pulse is on aprox. 10th primary teeth (is it correct?)
Log included (1st log, there was full pull at 3-4-5 gear, no problem at all, after another 15minutes I got 2nd trigger errors. 2nd log. My both trriggers are on pictures attached.
Anyway, now I am adding 20uF/100V bipolar capacitor near COPs to suppress potential noise from ignition (not sure if there is some noise...) - if is it noise problem indeed.
(http://www.mervart.eu/!projects/AstraMEP/AstraMEP_triggers.png)
(http://www.mervart.eu/!projects/AstraMEP/AstraMEP_triggers_zoom.png)
www.mervart.eu/!projects/AstraMEP/v3.3_n003287-2014.09.15-17.19.28_OK.vemslog (http://www.mervart.eu/!projects/AstraMEP/v3.3_n003287-2014.09.15-17.19.28_OK.vemslog)
www.mervart.eu/!projects/AstraMEP/v3.3_n003287-2014.09.15-17.38.14_errors.vemslog (http://www.mervart.eu/!projects/AstraMEP/v3.3_n003287-2014.09.15-17.38.14_errors.vemslog)
Title: Re: Opel AstraF C20XE M2.8 -> C20LET
Post by: Pet on September 21, 2014, 09:29:37 pm: Trying 2nd trigger with 1.2.11. - no improvement, still 2nd trig erros.... So for today drag race I've switched ign to dual out (wasted spark) and it was fine during all three drag runs (not full power 0.8-1.2bar only). So it must be something wrong in my 2nd trigger hw.....

PS:actual photo of my engine
(http://www.mervart.eu/!projects/VEMS_astra_t3/photo/astra_bay_hoskovice.9.14s.jpg)