VEMS Community Forum
Members => Projects & Installs => Topic started by: andreNL on December 14, 2010, 08:08:16 am
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Hi, my name is andre and i live in the Netherlands
I have a GTTI as a hobby car where DIY is the key word.
the car is a 3 cilinder 12valve 993cc engine, delivering 107hp standard.
My goal is 180-200 and lots of fun building ;D
(http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/car1.jpg)
The car gets a pretty basic Vems install with a:
24-1 Hall trigger wheel ( Hall TLE4905L glued 55deg BTDC from the Vems shop)
1 tooth Hall cam sensor ( Hall SS443A glued in the Dizzy 90deg before Missing teeth sensed at cranck)
knock sensor. ( fitted at the rear center of the engineblock Toyota celica turbo sensor)
Ignition through single coil and original distribution setup
WBO2 (Bosch from Vems shop)
Boostvalve control
3 sequential fired injectors
vems also controls the radiator fan and the fuelpump through the original relays and the original dash boost light, tacho and a engine checklight ;D (P259 channels)
I builded the controler into the original ECU box, and wired the original Loom to the controller.
original V+ comes from the main relay.
Injectors, WBO2 and coil connected to the Injection relay V+
Controller central Mass cable connected to engine head,
and GND and GND5 connected to this cable.
My car has Regrinded Kent cams, a 45mm throttlebody (original 35)
standard 295cc injectors because i burnt my 450cc :( hybrid turbo, FMC
and a paddle clutch lightned flywheel and custom made allumium poulies.
TIP: Use computer mouse cable for Hall or other sensor cables
it has 5 wires and aluminium shielding and copper shielding.
Connect the sheelding only to the controller side Mass,
leave the other side unconnected and use maskingtape to prevent shorts.
For glueing your Hall sensor to allumium engine parts use UHU-300 superfest hobby glue :D
Tooths and degrees,
In my search understanding this i share my findings with you, i dont know exactly if its right but should get the engine started ;D
i dentify where about the TDC is reletive to the missing tooth.
measure the degrees of your Hall sensor's position to the pistons first cilinder TDC.
measure the degrees of the missing tooth to cilinders TDC.
If the sensor is fitted 55deg before TDC and TDC is situated 60deg after the missing on the thooth wheel the missing has 55deg to travel to TDC but the piston 55+60 = 115deg.
So when the missing is detected the piston is at 115 BTDC.
Now the trigger tooth is the tooth setup in the software after the missing tooth, this can be the first tooth called '0' or the 12 thooth called '11'.
At the trigger tooth injectors inject always, but ignition can be set in the tooth reference table to spark after the trigger tooth + degrees set in 'TDC after Trigger' in primary trigger settings. in the injector table you can select wich injector to start injecting at the trigger tooth the next comes after next trigger tooth.
So if you want to inject earlier you can select a previous cilinder or swap your ignition table, or both.
Problems encounterd::
Safe Mode not disabling
I think i solved this with setting the iButton feature in base settings -> ECU calibrations
Setting the High bit to 190 and the Low bit to 239 should enable the ECU. (Fixed)
Building my Loom i totally forgot about fuel relay wire, so no fuelpump running ;) (Fixed)
WBO2 way off followed these steps WBO2 hardware test (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard%2FManual%2FWideBandHardwareTest)(Fixed)
Fried coil: IGBT switching transistor burnt because of short left IGBT in ON state. (Fixed)
Fried Injectors:
Testing them manual, not a good idea. (Fixed)
Fried P259:
Shorted while testing voltages on the board(Fixed)
No Cam trigger:
Wanted to use the original VR cam trigger, ordered an extra LM815 but to much problems i changed the whole setup to Cam HAll rewired through original Loom and glued magnet and sensor in dizzy(Fixed)
No fuel injected:
Didnt read the manual and wiki good enough and left a Overrun fuelcut feature on.
"Overrun Fuel Cut Pressure based=> 140 kpa" (F1) Fuel is cut BELOW this setting.
"Overrun Fuel Cut Pressure based" => 0... Yes fuel injected. ;D (Fixed)
Stupidety,
i presumed my standard injectors where 395cc, searching google revieled they are 295cc/min :-[ (Fixed)
Communication, Vems crashing and reconnecting evry 5sec.
Probeply my Laptop has not enough memory to handle all processes when Vems is loaded.(Verified = ok)
It turned out my old boorloader didnt correspond well with the new firmware.
Uploaded a new bootloader with fw.1.1.87, but this firmware isnt available yet for Vemstune so connection still wasnt happy. Uploaded the new boorloader again with 1.1.87 fw and new settings for the fuses because the board stayed in boorloader mode evrytime at powerup. Did didnt help after the new upload the board stil started in bootloader mode even with fuses set. Uploaded 1.1.84 with Vemstune and now the marker is set by VT and evrything works pretty stable and the board startsup in stead of starting in bootmode.(Fixed)
Crazy Fuel settings???::
Sparks on a dizzy means right plugs are fired, fuel is injected but to get a puf from the engine it feels like i need to set crazy settings for my engine. Cranck VE=> 250%, 400-500% cranck enrichment, inj. pulse 7,5ms ((993/3/285)x6,49 and 900uS Rampup) PW 58us @ crancking :o ???
New injectors 460cc high ohm (12,6) cleaned and balanced and the new firmware with modest settings for cold/warm enrichment and 450uS for rampup and bat correction will do the trick. I know soon for a new starting attempt ... ;D
Update 10-01-11:: New bootloader and firmware 1.1.84 didnt start the car, last weekend i took the loom outof the car and rewire the V+ feed to injectors, coil and WBO2 and boost bleed valve. Also rewired the dashlights for a clean look by wiring them through the incar connector instead with loose wires under the dashboard.
This morning tried to start the engine but didnt have succes, it looks like the cilinders wont get the required fuel they supposed to get. The only thing i can think of to check is the flyback wire and FET's. I checked the Injector connectors voltage and switched a 0,5w light bulp fitted to the connectors with the FET's wich works well.
(http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/gtti%20prim%20sec%20trig%20pic.png)
Update: 03-09-2011
Drove the car home in april because i needed to leave the garage i had,
after this couple of major problems fixed.
* severe oil leaking. Wrong sump gasket, replaced with new wright one (Fixed)
* Injector cyl.1 not closing fast enough leaving carbon build up on plug.
Solder joint connecting FET+ with V+ and first flyback diode was cracked(Fixed)
To source down the oil leakage i replaced the cranckseal aswell.
To source down the broken solder joint replaced connectors at coil, coil wire, cam position sensor cleaned and checked position as well the cranck sensor.
Upgraded firmeware from 1.1.85 to 1.1.95 for better acceleration enrichment but this wasnt a succes.
Because of a software change to reset SD-card, my ECU reseted while driving the car really enoying even got me stuck once on the middle of the highway so downgraded to 1.1.85 again and all works fine.
Jobs to do:
Fine tuning the fuel map,
Its hard to find the correct settings driving under very light load like through town with 30km/h in second.
Getting the knock sensor to work and act is difficult.
The sensor works in the Log file, but getting noise scale, threshold and gain set at the right values needs diving in deep into the subject.
To get more resolution at the fuel table i divided the req.fuel by 2 and doubled the fuel table values.
also added a extra column between 1200 and 1500 rpm trying to get low loads better to work.
Also have some rare (once, twice in a 15-30min drive) trigger error when cruising steady or with release of the throttle pedal.
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For reference here is your Wiki page : http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FDaihard
Thread on your firmware upload issue : http://www.vemssupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1522.0.html
Have you solved the issues you've had with your laptop not communicating properly with the ECU?
I would advice you to run a memory test on such old hardware.. www.memtest86.com is good.
Please upload a vemslog and triggerlog from cranking the engine, which is now possible since you're running 1.1.78++ firmware.
You have a great possibility to do so in the file area here :
http://www.vems.hu/filethingie.php
(how to use it : http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=FileArea)
Your files fit best here :
http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/
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Ahh you found my Wiki page :D, i will update it this weekend
saw some links do not work properly anymore will fix that to.
I agree with you about the memory issue,
i look for bigger memory and see if it helps or else a faster laptop.
i dont think the communication is the problem,
but my laptop cant handle the amount of realtime processes going on when Vemstune is loaded.
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Try to find a laptop without ATI graphics, then it should be ok even if it's 6-7 years old.
The kPa based fuelcut has two different functions, what you wrote is just wrong.
- the overrun fuelcut (while engine breaking)
- overboost fuelcut (to prevent engine damage in case the wastegate malfunctions)
The overrun can be set to 0 if you use the rpm based cut instead, if you use it - then it's usually at just below engine idle vacuum.
Overboost should be obvious.
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Your right didnt understand what overrun means.
i had it at 140kpa,
http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/gtti%20prim%20sec%20trig%20pic.png
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Which VemsTune version did you use to create the log files?
I can't read any of them.. tried with VemsTune from 2010-11-15 and the more experimental from 2010-12-02.
Maybe something just went wrong with your upload? Try putting all those files in a compressed zip file and upload that instead.
Clarification is needed about your trigger setup.
It is not important where on the engine you have mounted the primary trigger sensor, it is only important where it is in relation to the missing tooth on your 24-1 trigger wheel. If you set the missing tooth in front of the sensor, how many degrees does the engine need to rotate before it is in TDC for cyl 1 ?
At least your triggerlog looks ok in the picture, but I'm not sure you understand where this all occurs in relation to TDC for cyl 1.
I hope your methods of using glue for the sensors and what not is a good idea, vibration and heat may not be compatible. It's ok for just testing and starting up, but maybe not for daily use.
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i uploaded the *.zip files
and changed the drawing, you where wright i forgot to include the 'before tdc degrees'
i use both versions 2010-11-15 and 2010-12-02 comm model, the first for changing table the second
for looking while testing.
TDC is 115 degrees after the missing.
Time will tell i want to make a bracket for the dizzy, but they glue airplanes together so i'm confident ;D
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Can you open and view the logs yourself?
Because I can't.
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Uploaded 3 files should all be working when loaded in vemstune, i used 2010-12-02
cheers andre
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Well, the files don't work here. I even tried the new 2010-12-17 release that came today. I will notify the developers so that they can check the files and see what's the issue. If the files are damaged then VemsTune should give a proper error description.
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I downloaded them to a seperated folder, unzipped, then started vemstune and used open log file , trigger file worked but not enough data . The config can be opened in the browser.as a txt file.
EDIT:: uploaded config in zip form today.
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Wait a minute.
Your ECU doesn't have a proper serial number, this is evident in the config and log files if viewed as text. The board is from 2004 just before all were shipped with one, probably one of the first hundred shipped. Firmware 1.1.x above 1.1.50 or something will not co-operate, to prevent copy-cat hardware (has been done or this wouldn't exist), both ignition and IAC will be locked.
It's been six years.. you should send it back to Budapest, pay to have it looked over and fixed.
You should also enter a proper ECU name in the dialog which appears when you first connect with the ECU. Makes life easier.
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But i have sparks, and dont use a IAC... just a idle air screw.
Have to figer a way to fit a solenoid to the throttlebody to keep it open a little.
The engine when cranking i needed to add 800% off fuel in cranking and afterstart enrichment
to get some life but it just doesnt want to pickup revs, it seems like it keeps hanging in afterstart.
Maybe i have to lower the Lambda table to get more fuel injected with the transistion from afterstart enrichment to the table's.
PS i hope your wrong about my board isnt working, gives alot of hassle to get a new board.
thx cheers andre
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Yes, but spark is locked to 10 degrees and ignores the ignition map completely.
I'm pretty sure the missing serial number is confusing VemsTune as well, I will make the developers aware of it. In your files the serial number appears as strange text.
Please run www.memtest86.com boot CD on your laptop, to make sure that your memory is in good working order - no errors are acceptable.
With 256 MB memory you should have enough to run VemsTune, CPU and graphics card in case of bad drivers without hardware acceleration are the main performance limiters.
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OK i do the memtest first, it makes sense if the ignition is locked it wont start :'(
Memtest ok Pass no errors,
PIII 797,6mhz
L1 16k
L2 256k
mem 255mb chipset intel i815
I tried to started the car today changing ignition for and back playing with fuel requirements
just couple of pufs so now and then but no more.
Edit: Checked Bios and drivers,
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That it won't start is not caused by the ignition lock, it's in the configuration. I haven't been able to do offline changes to your config since it confuses VemsTune, there were several things that needed to be looked over.
You should be able to start it but you could lock the ignition to 20-25 degrees and do a base VE tune.
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It's like 50 Euros + shipping for them to look over your board, fix the serial number. Just make notes of what you want done and it's there. That's not much of a hassle.
Analog inputs, wheel speed input instead of the PS/2 connector, look over the trigger inputs, .. that would be good for your board.
The configuration had several things that needed to be looked over. You should not have to do many changes to the fuel settings to make it start, adding several 100% is just insane. You must use good defaults, your VE map was terrible and just random data so fueling was catastrophic. You had injector staging configured and not used. Lambda table was not setup correctly, neither was MAT/TPS enrichment. MAP correction table was random data too.
While online to your ECU, open this config and upload :
http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/mattias-proposal-2010.12.19.zip
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Big Thanx, gonne see if it starts on your config tomorrow, ;D
I couldn't figre out how to disable staging :-[.
I have sent a email to the shop maybe Marcel has a solution for the serial number.
Cheers
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You need to program the CPU via the ISP interface (parallel port cable, etc.) and upload a new bootloader hex-file. I'm not sure Marcell will send you one, if he does - congratulations. You still have to figure out how to upload it, it's in the Wiki.
Because of all the errors in your config earlier, I have to suggest that you slow down - go through all dialogs, think about the purpose of settings and tables. Don't just blindly crank the engine. If I was you I would start with no power to the injectors, and verify that the ignition occurs on all cylinders at the correct time, preferrably make markings on the cam shaft gear and use a strobe light.
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You need to program the CPU via the ISP interface (parallel port cable, etc.) and upload a new bootloader hex-file.
If someone has the ability to make a counterfit VEMS, then uploading a boot loader with a serial number is not going to be a challenge is it?
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Sort of - its a built-in feature of the AVR to stop copyright infringement.
I know that there's at least one run of a copy of the v3 that's been done, strangely enough they've not dented the market much, LOL!
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I have board number 122 version 3.2. When i got the board evrything needed to be done by the serial connection Using my make to upload the files i stil have them on my old pc somewhere.
I Uploaded a txt file with the settings of a microtech ecu from a australian bloke having the same engine and heavily modefied.
Vems started out because people of megasquirt didnt want to make a full ems.
In first people ( students and DIY enthousiast) builded there own PCB's Thats why the layout there on the site available for download. The biggest problem where the availabilty of circuit board parts, processor Igbt and fet are not sold or only in big orders, so marcel took this part on to his shoulders and together with jurgen and a couple of other people they developed Vems to a full ems platform. Its nice to see the project developed so well, i Hope the DIY spirit is not being pushed a side for commercial interest. Ofcourse if people Using the designs in commercial projects the guys should bennefit for there efforts and hard work.
Cheers andré
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The bootloader unfortunately can't be fixed through the serialport.
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Marcel is helping me out with the bootloader issue ;D ;D ;D :-*
Rethinking all options what can be wrong,
I wired my V+ for injectors, coil and WBO2+ all from a single wire, 15amp fuse and relay
can it be that these together pull voltage down.
It would explain why i need so many mSeconds to open the injectors.
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The developers are asking for a terminal command output, can you do that?
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=IssueReports%2FVemsTune
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ManmdV command?
I'll give you a report tomorrow,
Marcel sended me the Boot.hex and firmware 1.1.87 :D
I read your page on how to update the bootloader.
cheers andre
Edit: tried to flash the bootloader, but didnt succeed.
When i got home searced in google and found that i needed to instal a program to open a IO port voor AVRdude to flash the board. Try again tomorrow.
I also checked the cars ignition/starting wiring if evry stays powered on when the key is turned to starting position. This was ok ... fuel pump keeps running and ignition, injectors and WBO2 are energized.
Edit:: 24-12-2010
My board's bootloader is updated and it looks like its working fine.
i cant upload a config file because fw. 1.1.87 isnt in the webtool yet.
VT-comm models seems to see my board is still in boot mode,
however non-Comm models connecting fine to the board.
name and serial are in the downloaded config files available.
http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/avrdude_flash.JPG
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Little update:
Some confusion regarding LowZ and HighZ setup.
Mixed some parts up because the board came with fet drivers soldered on the board,
Fet drivers are used in LowZ configuration, in HighZ the driver solder place pins are shorted.
Because i wanted HighZ configuration i soldered the diodes i opposite position, with the Fet drivers.
Soldered the LowZ diodes in serial.
WBO2 wasnt working well strange readings pump - wire broken.
cheers andre
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Update 27-1-2011
Yeah car started and run for a minute when the cam trigger tooth knocked of the hall sensor from its bracket :D
Before i removed the loom and board from the car for repairing the WBO2 pump - wire i checked voltage on the FET driver. Voltage was 0 at the supply pin. Reading the Wiki for information i found for driving the Fet's it needs to be higher then 6v and 12v is normal.
R154 on the back of the board on version 3.2 is the supply source of the drivers, and was missing.
I also soldered D14 and D27 wich i removed again because they give ghost triggers,
and R142 and C62 between pin 26 and 29 TPS supply and 5v wich i removed again because didnt see a point of pulling up voltage on the TPS wich works well on 5volts.
Finnely building the board and loom back into the car and tested the WBO2 wich still gave faulty readings.
Checking the pcb wiring from Pin 7 southbound the circuit to C50-C54 was damaged and giving the error.
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Good to see a fellow Daihatsu running VEMS (I suppose you are on Daihard forums too...), I'm running a Feroza 1.6L with a 1.3L Charade cam and DeTomaso header on stock G102 ECU, but am going supercharged with a Toyota Denso SX14 supercharger (on all stock hardware except for the ECU and injectors) and running it in the 24 Hours of LeMons races. I ran the above spec minus the supercharger and won our class readily, so its a quite fast car.
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Hi yes i'am on the daihard forum to trying to get my fellow daihatsu enthousiast on Vems to.
Its much easier for sharing information and ideas then do it all alone.
You running a feroza on a circuit or offroad race?
Searched for lemons but couldnt find it.
A 1.6 with a 1.3 ecu commenly used here i have the 3pot turbo :)
Nice to meet you on the forum
Cheers andré
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Engine fired up now tuning the tables :)
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Update: MOT today 0.1%co walked straight through ;D ;D
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2011-08-19
i couldnt get the VE table wright, checked the software all ignition wiring and plug wires evrything no luck.
Evrytime the plug from first cilinder was covered with carbon.
After some time i got the bright idea its maybe the a faulty injector from the first cilinder changed the first cilinder injector with the one from the second cilinder and fitted a new injector to the second cilinder boy what a change it runs like crazy except idle and part throttle with low load is difficult tuning, but ill get it right soon lol
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I cheered to early, yesterday afternoon i drove home and problem started again.
Failing first cilinder, injector can be ruled out.
Searching internet ruled out leaking valve stem oil seals, because deposit is dry black carbon (fuel) and not oil. My thought go to a Failing solder joint of a diode in the flyback circuit of the first cilinder. Its the only thing i can think off wich Could cause this problem .
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update first post.