VEMS Community Forum
Technical => Solenoids => Topic started by: Wolf_Tm on November 11, 2015, 09:09:11 am
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Hi,
any idea how to connect and drive Toyota VVT/OCV solenoid valves?
On the Toyota electric wiring map, this solenoid valve has 2 pins (OCV+ and OCV-) and both are connected DIRECTLY to the oem ecu.
Thanks
Wolf
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Hello Wolf_TM,
Do you have a bit more info about these solenoids, perhaps oem schematic link or engine code so i review against known configuration ?
Best regards, Dave
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Hello Wolf_TM,
Do you have a bit more info about these solenoids, perhaps oem schematic link or engine code so i review against known configuration ?
Best regards, Dave
Hi Dave,
I do have the oem wiring diagrams, but there is nothing more than both the 2 wires from the solenoid going to the ecu!
(http://s28.postimg.org/nywtts825/vvt.jpg)
Engine code is 3SGE BEAMS, but almost the same solenoid is also used in other Toyota applications like the 1ZZ-FE engine.
Is there any test I could do on the solenoid to help you help me?
Thanks
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use + from ignition
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use + from ignition
Ok, thanks Kamuto.
Any special setting in Vems tune to drive them?
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you will need diode on this output + select frequency when they works best
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you will need diode on this output + select frequency when they works best
So you mean OCV+ to a switched 12v and OCV- to diode to a 12V drive ignition output, for example?
What kind of diode?
Thanks
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The diode is in the rescue kit
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The diode is in the rescue kit
Ok, must ask the customer to look for it... thanks!
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Hi,
few questions about how VEMS controls the VVT solenoid.
1. is there a function to disable VVT solenoid when engine is warming? At cold oil (higher viscosity) idling is difficult because of the valve timing continuosly changing, as it would need a setup totally different from hot oil.
2. question about VEMS PID.
I noticed that I can't get all the solenoid DC, needed to get to the target VVT angle, just by using the Proportional gain, but it only arrives up to 25% DC.
And to get up to the rest of the needed DC (around 50%) I absolutely need to add some Integral.
It's a very strange PID behaviour, compared to others ecus.
3. is it ok to have the sectrig position +/-1.5° from the camshaft target value? Wasn't able to do any better..
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Hi,
few questions about how VEMS controls the VVT solenoid.
1. is there a function to disable VVT solenoid when engine is warming? At cold oil (higher viscosity) idling is difficult because of the valve timing continuosly changing, as it would need a setup totally different from hot oil.
2. question about VEMS PID.
I noticed that I can't get all the solenoid DC, needed to get to the target VVT angle, just by using the Proportional gain, but it only arrives up to 25% DC.
And to get up to the rest of the needed DC (around 50%) I absolutely need to add some Integral.
It's a very strange PID behaviour, compared to others ecus.
3. is it ok to have the sectrig position +/-1.5° from the camshaft target value? Wasn't able to do any better..
upload log
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Hi,
few questions about how VEMS controls the VVT solenoid.
1. is there a function to disable VVT solenoid when engine is warming? At cold oil (higher viscosity) idling is difficult because of the valve timing continuosly changing, as it would need a setup totally different from hot oil.
2. question about VEMS PID.
I noticed that I can't get all the solenoid DC, needed to get to the target VVT angle, just by using the Proportional gain, but it only arrives up to 25% DC.
And to get up to the rest of the needed DC (around 50%) I absolutely need to add some Integral.
It's a very strange PID behaviour, compared to others ecus.
3. is it ok to have the sectrig position +/-1.5° from the camshaft target value? Wasn't able to do any better..
upload log
Hi,
issue #1 solved by lowering target angle.
But now i'm fighting again a worse issue.
VVT solenoid starts to change camshaft timing when around a minimum of 40%, that is to say no angle change from 0 to 40% DC.
Problem is that it gets a pair of seconds to get from 0 to 40%, even with maximum Proportional gain, so it's like VVT disabled in shorter gears.
Would be very handy to have a minimum/maximum allowable DC even for VVT solenoid, so that PID could start working from 40% DC (in my case), or even a Normal Position DC table to help PID to get faster to the target.
Camshaft Angle control/Reference position is already at 50%, but changing it was of no help (changed nothing).
Is there any other way to solve that?
Thanks
-
Hi,
few questions about how VEMS controls the VVT solenoid.
1. is there a function to disable VVT solenoid when engine is warming? At cold oil (higher viscosity) idling is difficult because of the valve timing continuosly changing, as it would need a setup totally different from hot oil.
2. question about VEMS PID.
I noticed that I can't get all the solenoid DC, needed to get to the target VVT angle, just by using the Proportional gain, but it only arrives up to 25% DC.
And to get up to the rest of the needed DC (around 50%) I absolutely need to add some Integral.
It's a very strange PID behaviour, compared to others ecus.
3. is it ok to have the sectrig position +/-1.5° from the camshaft target value? Wasn't able to do any better..
upload log
Hi,
issue #1 solved by lowering target angle.
But now i'm fighting again a worse issue.
VVT solenoid starts to change camshaft timing when around a minimum of 40%, that is to say no angle change from 0 to 40% DC.
Problem is that it gets a pair of seconds to get from 0 to 40%, even with maximum Proportional gain, so it's like VVT disabled in shorter gears.
Would be very handy to have a minimum/maximum allowable DC even for VVT solenoid, so that PID could start working from 40% DC (in my case), or even a Normal Position DC table to help PID to get faster to the target.
Camshaft Angle control/Reference position is already at 50%, but changing it was of no help (changed nothing).
Is there any other way to solve that?
Thanks
for idling leave solenoid in resting position :) never had issue like yours, especialy with toyotas, + 1.2.36 software has better cam control :) even perfect controll
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VVT solenoid starts to change camshaft timing when around a minimum of 40%, that is to say no angle change from 0 to 40% DC.
Problem is that it gets a pair of seconds to get from 0 to 40%, even with maximum Proportional gain, so it's like VVT disabled in shorter gears.
Would be very handy to have a minimum/maximum allowable DC even for VVT solenoid, so that PID could start working from 40% DC (in my case), or even a Normal Position DC table to help PID to get faster to the target.
Camshaft Angle control/Reference position is already at 50%, but changing it was of no help (changed nothing).
Is there any other way to solve that?
Thanks
for idling leave solenoid in resting position :) never had issue like yours, especialy with toyotas, + 1.2.36 software has better cam control :) even perfect controll
1.2.31 is the latest fw web tool finds... where can Iind the 1.2.36?!
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newest vemstune
http://www.vems.hu/download/v3gui/NIGHTLY/VemsTune-Install-2016-10-01.exe
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges
put it into webcache/fw folder in vemstune install, install over firmware web tool
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newest vemstune
http://www.vems.hu/download/v3gui/NIGHTLY/VemsTune-Install-2016-10-01.exe
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges
put it into webcache/fw folder in vemstune install, install over firmware web tool
I have the latest VT...
is the 1.2.34 safe to street use?
I saw it has some vvt upgrades...
Thanks
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newest vemstune
http://www.vems.hu/download/v3gui/NIGHTLY/VemsTune-Install-2016-10-01.exe
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges
put it into webcache/fw folder in vemstune install, install over firmware web tool
I have the latest VT...
is the 1.2.34 safe to street use?
I saw it has some vvt upgrades...
Thanks
would use 1.2.36 :)
yes, no seen problems with 1.2.36 at least in my side :)
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newest vemstune
http://www.vems.hu/download/v3gui/NIGHTLY/VemsTune-Install-2016-10-01.exe
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges
put it into webcache/fw folder in vemstune install, install over firmware web tool
I have the latest VT...
is the 1.2.34 safe to street use?
I saw it has some vvt upgrades...
Thanks
would use 1.2.36 :)
yes, no seen problems with 1.2.36 at least in my side :)
Thanks!
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newest vemstune
http://www.vems.hu/download/v3gui/NIGHTLY/VemsTune-Install-2016-10-01.exe
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges
put it into webcache/fw folder in vemstune install, install over firmware web tool
I have the latest VT...
is the 1.2.34 safe to street use?
I saw it has some vvt upgrades...
Thanks
would use 1.2.36 :)
yes, no seen problems with 1.2.36 at least in my side :)
Thanks!
Using latest VT 2016-10-01
Firmware info = 1.2.36
Extracted the new ini files into the Vemstune/Config folder, but still getting the "VT is older than the fw you're using" message!
How to manually update the downloaded ini files?!
Thanks
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ignore it ;) just check config validation :)
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ignore it ;) just check config validation :)
Someone should have write that somewhere... I felt like a stupid noob for an entire day... :D
Thanks Kamuto!
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Talking about the 1.2.36 fw settings, Motorsport/camshaft angle control,
what are intake refdc up & down supposed to be?
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Talking about the 1.2.36 fw settings, Motorsport/camshaft angle control,
what are intake refdc up & down supposed to be?
this is for you to decide, test, play, think with your head ;)
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Talking about the 1.2.36 fw settings, Motorsport/camshaft angle control,
what are intake refdc up & down supposed to be?
this is for you to decide, test, play, think with your head ;)
Yes Mate, I already tried... I saw that they both increase base duty cycle the solenoid starts from.... but I can't really find a difference between up and down!
PS: talking about 1.2.36, I found that Speed sensor setup is missing the Rising option.. is the same there?!
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Talking about the 1.2.36 fw settings, Motorsport/camshaft angle control,
what are intake refdc up & down supposed to be?
this is for you to decide, test, play, think with your head ;)
Yes Mate, I already tried... I saw that they both increase base duty cycle the solenoid starts from.... but I can't really find a difference between up and down!
PS: talking about 1.2.36, I found that Speed sensor setup is missing the Rising option.. is the same there?!
so what is the problem with solenoid? :)
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Talking about the 1.2.36 fw settings, Motorsport/camshaft angle control,
what are intake refdc up & down supposed to be?
this is for you to decide, test, play, think with your head ;)
Yes Mate, I already tried... I saw that they both increase base duty cycle the solenoid starts from.... but I can't really find a difference between up and down!
PS: talking about 1.2.36, I found that Speed sensor setup is missing the Rising option.. is the same there?!
so what is the problem with solenoid? :)
The problem is that I still have sectrig oscillations at lower target angles that disappear when at higher target angles...
I think it could help a table refdc vs target....
PS: can you please confirm the 1.2.36 speed sensor issue?
Thanks...
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Talking about the 1.2.36 fw settings, Motorsport/camshaft angle control,
what are intake refdc up & down supposed to be?
this is for you to decide, test, play, think with your head ;)
Yes Mate, I already tried... I saw that they both increase base duty cycle the solenoid starts from.... but I can't really find a difference between up and down!
PS: talking about 1.2.36, I found that Speed sensor setup is missing the Rising option.. is the same there?!
so what is the problem with solenoid? :)
The problem is that I still have sectrig oscillations at lower target angles that disappear when at higher target angles...
I think it could help a table refdc vs target....
PS: can you please confirm the 1.2.36 speed sensor issue?
Thanks...
there is no issue with speed sensor, it has to be like this :)
I think you need more experience doing simple tasks ;) play with pid values a little, it works absolutely beautiful + did you put diode on vvti solenoid output?
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there is no issue with speed sensor, it has to be like this :)
Ok, will use "falling" as there is no "rising" option, and while Help file tells to use "rising" with VR sensors...
I think you need more experience doing simple tasks ;) play with pid values a little, it works absolutely beautiful + did you put diode on vvti solenoid output?
Yes, i put the diode, and yes, I'm pretty sure that playing some more time with PID can take to better results, but i can guarantee you that with a normal position table as has Motec (refdc for Vems) the results are amazing... ;)
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there is no issue with speed sensor, it has to be like this :)
Ok, will use "falling" as there is no "rising" option, and while Help file tells to use "rising" with VR sensors...
I think you need more experience doing simple tasks ;) play with pid values a little, it works absolutely beautiful + did you put diode on vvti solenoid output?
Yes, i put the diode, and yes, I'm pretty sure that playing some more time with PID can take to better results, but i can guarantee you that with a normal position table as has Motec (refdc for Vems) the results are amazing... ;)
buy motec then ;) rising is for crank cam sensors, not the speedsensor ;) anyway, it works perfect on vems too :) just person has to know what he's doing :)) anyway even if you have ref position table on motec you still need to tune pid ;)
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Ok, will use "falling" as there is no "rising" option, and while Help file tells to use "rising" with VR sensors...
rising is for crank cam sensors, not the speedsensor ;)
Ok, so the F1 help file would need to be updated... ;)
Moreover with older fws my speedometer readings where ok with rising and 100Hz/100kph, and now they are no more....
Yes, i put the diode, and yes, I'm pretty sure that playing some more time with PID can take to better results, but i can guarantee you that with a normal position table as has Motec (refdc for Vems) the results are amazing... ;)
buy motec then ;) anyway, it works perfect on vems too :) just person has to know what he's doing :)) anyway even if you have ref position table on motec you still need to tune pid ;)
My customer bought a Vems, so that's what I have to map... ;)
Yes, sure, even with a normal position table you still have to map PID, but as PID work is helped by normal position, resulting DC are perfect...
Anyway, are you talking about 1ZZ/2ZZ vvt?
Something must be different from my setup (3SGE Beams), because my sectrig changes in one degree step, so it's never exactly on the target...
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Ok, will use "falling" as there is no "rising" option, and while Help file tells to use "rising" with VR sensors...
rising is for crank cam sensors, not the speedsensor ;)
Ok, so the F1 help file would need to be updated... ;)
Moreover with older fws my speedometer readings where ok with rising and 100Hz/100kph, and now they are no more....
Yes, i put the diode, and yes, I'm pretty sure that playing some more time with PID can take to better results, but i can guarantee you that with a normal position table as has Motec (refdc for Vems) the results are amazing... ;)
buy motec then ;) anyway, it works perfect on vems too :) just person has to know what he's doing :)) anyway even if you have ref position table on motec you still need to tune pid ;)
My customer bought a Vems, so that's what I have to map... ;)
Yes, sure, even with a normal position table you still have to map PID, but as PID work is helped by normal position, resulting DC are perfect...
Anyway, are you talking about 1ZZ/2ZZ vvt?
Something must be different from my setup (3SGE Beams), because my sectrig changes in one degree step, so it's never exactly on the target...
just post log :) after that it is possible to talk about something
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Ok, will use "falling" as there is no "rising" option, and while Help file tells to use "rising" with VR sensors...
rising is for crank cam sensors, not the speedsensor ;)
Ok, so the F1 help file would need to be updated... ;)
Moreover with older fws my speedometer readings where ok with rising and 100Hz/100kph, and now they are no more....
Yes, i put the diode, and yes, I'm pretty sure that playing some more time with PID can take to better results, but i can guarantee you that with a normal position table as has Motec (refdc for Vems) the results are amazing... ;)
buy motec then ;) anyway, it works perfect on vems too :) just person has to know what he's doing :)) anyway even if you have ref position table on motec you still need to tune pid ;)
My customer bought a Vems, so that's what I have to map... ;)
Yes, sure, even with a normal position table you still have to map PID, but as PID work is helped by normal position, resulting DC are perfect...
Anyway, are you talking about 1ZZ/2ZZ vvt?
Something must be different from my setup (3SGE Beams), because my sectrig changes in one degree step, so it's never exactly on the target...
just post log :) after that it is possible to talk about something
Here it is:
https://www.datafilehost.com/d/decc5826
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in my opinion your cam target and cam position follows it perfectly :)) just rpm signal looks little bit jumpy, but I'm not sure what's happening in this log :)
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in my opinion your cam target and cam position follows it perfectly :))
Thanks!
just rpm signal looks little bit jumpy, but I'm not sure what's happening in this log :)
Tyre slipping on tarmac... ;D
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and afr little bit off the target :)
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and afr little bit off the target :)
Yes, sure... engine was not mapped on dyno yet, and ego corr is off...