Author Topic: No spark VAG TFSI coils  (Read 18667 times)

Offline mattias

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No spark VAG TFSI coils
« on: September 23, 2014, 02:10:33 am »
Has anyone successfully used these coils?
Bosch "0 986 221 023"
VAG 036905715F

Commonly used on VAG (VW/Audi) TFSI engines (year 2000-2010?).

The pinout is as follows :
    Pin1: ECU Ground
    Pin2: Engine block Ground
    Pin3: 12 volts + (switched)
    Pin4: Signal from ECU

(This is _different_ from the VAG 115 coils, still same connector - beware!)

I've connected pin 1 and 2 to the cylinder head.
The signal is attached to stepper output. I can't get any spark.

The resistance between ground and the signal pin is 370 Ohms.

I will measure voltage at the signal pin, and possibly try to drive it with a current limiting resistor.
Maybe logic level +5V output with 250 Ohm limiting resistor will work better?


Offline Sprocket

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 12:21:32 am »
ooh, I've been thinking about these.... See my post, advice welcome. Sorry I can't be of any use here, but I am interested in your progress. Starting to get back onto my project, yay ;D

Offline MWfire

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2014, 12:48:06 am »
I used that coils without problems(started golf 5 tfsi engine).
imho used stepper outputs with 100ohm in series for protection.

Offline Sprocket

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2014, 12:14:11 am »
I have taken delivery of a set of these coils. They look like a real good fit on my engine. They are nice and short, not like some of the other VAG COP's. I have a few of questions before I start to make things smoke.

Mattias.... Did you resolve you problem?

MWfire.... is the series resistor recommended also when using logic level outputs and if so, what value would you recommend?

What dwell setting should I use with these or does it matter, are they self regulating?

Lastly, a daft question.... The pin out above is deffinately correct for these coils?

Thanks. Colin  :)

« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 12:20:14 am by Sprocket »

Offline mattias

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2014, 03:25:58 am »
Sorry, never had the time to bench test but will do sooner or later.
I suspect using current limiting resistors helps, maybe the coils do have a over-voltage protection of sorts.

Offline Sprocket

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2014, 08:23:01 pm »
Actually, looking at the logic level outputs, there is already a 1k resistor before the i259 driver :)

Dwell time?

Offline MWfire

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2014, 02:17:36 pm »
if you use wih logical output(5v), you don't need resistor.
Sometime(on some coils) you need to add one parallel resistor (500ohm) to current resistor (you will see space for them).

Offline Leonhard

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2014, 09:59:15 pm »
0 986 221 023 "short" TFSI COP

charge time (Dwell) -> 1,3ms @ 14V (7 Ampere)

energy (1000V zener load) 25mJ

pinout  1: ECU ground
            2: engine ground
            3: +12V (switched)
            4: signal (TTL)
---------------------------------------------------
0 221 604 115 "long" TFSI COP

charge time (Dwell) -> 1,8ms @ 14V (15 Ampere)

energy (1000V zener load) 55mJ

pinout  1: +12V (switched)
            2: ECU ground
            3: signal (TTL)
            4: engine ground
---------------------------------------------------

add 0,2-0,3ms charge time for wiring resistance (0,1 Ohm)

Offline Sprocket

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2014, 03:59:10 am »
That's good information :)

I'm about to hijack this thread though, but it may be relevant for information at the very least :D

Looking at the information above, I see that the spark energy on the short coil is nearly half that of the longer coil :-\ which got me thinking again. I'm looking for a fat spark as I may use 2 bar boost in the near future, that was after all the real reason I intend moving away from the direct fire Denso coils.

So, having a quick search around, there are a lot of different VAG coils that all pretty much look the same. I can get hold of a set of 0221604109 / 06H905115 fairly easily (read that as cheap as i'm not sure how well they will fit height wise in my engine). Does anyone have info or advice on those?..............

Thanks :)

Offline NenadNR

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2014, 06:54:49 pm »
OEM VW/Audi long coils for TFSI engines are Eldor 07K905715F (black) and  06E905115E (red).

http://www.europaparts.com/ignition-coil-pack-06e905115e.html
http://www.europaparts.com/ignition-coil-pack-07k905715f.html

I use them on honda B16A engine without any problem up to 9500 rpm. I added parallel resistor (500ohm) on logical output.

06H905115 are Bosch coils for 2.0 TFSI engines but I didn`t use them.

If coils are to long it is easy to make support adapter.

Offline Leonhard

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2014, 07:05:00 pm »
0 221 604 109 is replaced by 0 221 604 115, same specs

have a look at "http://www.boschmotorsport.co.uk/products.asp?pdf=injection_and_ignition"

there are quite a few COPs to choose, might be interesting  :)

Offline Sprocket

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 11:33:18 pm »
OEM VW/Audi long coils for TFSI engines are Eldor 07K905715F (black) and  06E905115E (red).

http://www.europaparts.com/ignition-coil-pack-06e905115e.html
http://www.europaparts.com/ignition-coil-pack-07k905715f.html

I use them on honda B16A engine without any problem up to 9500 rpm. I added parallel resistor (500ohm) on logical output.

06H905115 are Bosch coils for 2.0 TFSI engines but I didn`t use them.

If coils are to long it is easy to make support adapter.

The adapter is not an issue, I need to make one whatever (the short TFSi ones grip the plugs really well even without) its more the height restriction in the engine bay. A freind has bought some of the longer coils and trial fitted them last night to an almost identical engine configuration..... Too long for my application, the head of the coil sits above the cam cover. Not such a probelm on his car with the square nose front end, but they won't fit under the bonnet of the round nose on my car. Looks like I will be using the shorter ones then ;D

What can go wrong ;D I mean the short TFSI coil came off a turbo engine, and I'm putting them on a turbo engine ;D

Offline NenadNR

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2014, 03:01:12 am »
Another option are coils from VW 1.8t engine. 115 R, D and L revisions. Their length is between long and short TFSI coil.

There is no reason  for short TFSI coils not to work. Just add resistor.

Offline PG

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2015, 10:09:16 pm »
Hi!

I had also problems, they work with a 12V signal, so with stepper output they work perfectly

Bye

Greg

Offline darzamat

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Re: No spark VAG TFSI coils
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2015, 08:40:31 pm »
what is the correct dwell setting (coil charge [email protected]) for the RED coils (06E905115E)
i am using 3ms but i am not pretty sure if it is the correct setting.