Author Topic: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81  (Read 18799 times)

Offline billman

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Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« on: November 08, 2010, 04:11:30 pm »
For the first time today a had a trigger error. The i could induce it a second time and made a log (fortunately laptop was with me).
After that a put another gear it and rev it more slowly up top and got no errors whatsoever.

what could be causing that? Is it a minor issue and it was made that present because of the settings i have on the secondary trigger area?

log

http://www.vems.hu/files/Billman/v3.3_n001441-2010.11.08-17.21.51.zip
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 04:25:15 pm by billman »

Offline Jamo

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2010, 04:45:16 pm »
See http://www.vemssupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1469.0.html I raised it and it seems it's a firmware bug

Offline billman

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2010, 04:50:03 pm »
so you mean i should only set it to show errors in the sec trigger setting "Event of bad trigger" Just show and leave the rest at 0 to 359?

Offline Jamo

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2010, 04:58:50 pm »
That's what I've been told, yes

Offline mattias

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2010, 05:27:28 pm »
Set "event at bad trigger position" to "just show (default)" = which is the default setting.
I don't think this setting is the problem, but you never know. You never said if this caused the engine to stumble before you let your foot of the gas, or after.
 I would fix some of the below first :

Unless you're actively using the knock sensor, which is highly untested with recent firmware, I would set "knockchan" to 240 as is recommended to turn it off.

I think you are using way too much ignition advance on low cruising load, but you may not spend much time below 80 kPa with an aggressive driving style.. :)

You're running the engine far too lean in my opinion, this could make the engine mis-fire and cause trigger errors. Lambda 0.90 at full load is for N/A engines only and they usually run richer than that. Set to 0.82-0.83 for anything above 30-40 kPa boost (160 kPa row and up for you).

Most importantly, you have set the laws of physics out of play by setting the MAT/TPS enrichment table to 100% all over. Drag'n'drop the default table from one of the config files in the "VemsTune\defaultfirmwareconfigs" directory.
Your tune will change a lot depending on ambient temperature if you don't do this!

Make sure input functions you're not using are disabled, two are not and you're probably not aware. In this case they were not dangerous.

You're not using the correctly calculated req fuel if your injectors are truly 630 cc/min, but they probably are since you have higher values in the VE table than what you'd normally see. You should have 4.5 ms, not 3.1 ms. This affects the scaling of some of the enrichment functions.  

Since you've enabled EGO correction for all loads you can use it for tuning with "VE tune by statistics" in the Tools menu. This makes it easier for you when you have set the MAT/TPS enrichment table to the correct values. Just drive around for a while and let it suggest VE changes. Apply those and manually smooth out the table and you should be good to go.

I would not recommend any EGO correction at full load in the long haul. If you need correction at those loads you usually have a serious problem somewhere and you should not trust the lambda sensor for this job. On an Audi like this I would disable it above 120-130 kPa and 30+ % TPS, so it never correct when you "get on it".

Some other things could probably be said, but these are the most obvious ones from a short 5 minute review.

Offline Jamo

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2010, 05:48:39 pm »
Ignition looks about right to me the engine is a 2.5 stroker the same as mine

Offline billman

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2010, 06:22:27 pm »
You never said if this caused the engine to stumble before you let your foot of the gas, or after.

It happened before i let the throttle off. (note i don't have an inverter in the car now but i have an adaptor made but not use it till now)

Unless you're actively using the knock sensor, which is highly untested with recent firmware, I would set "knockchan" to 240 as is recommended to turn it off.

I just monitor them to see if they pick up something. Right now as i am in the process to increase boost i am listening directly to the one knock sensor and ignition at least at these areas seems good.

Most importantly, you have set the laws of physics out of play by setting the MAT/TPS enrichment table to 100% all over. Drag'n'drop the default table from one of the config files in the "VemsTune\defaultfirmwareconfigs" directory.
Your tune will change a lot depending on ambient temperature if you don't do this!

I am going to do it but since the EGO is for the time beeing on all the time i have no issues.

You're not using the correctly calculated req fuel if your injectors are truly 630 cc/min, but they probably are since you have higher values in the VE table than what you'd normally see. You should have 4.5 ms, not 3.1 ms. This affects the scaling of some of the enrichment functions.

My injectors flow 630 at 3 bar but i use a 3.8 bar fual pressure regulator.

I would like to thank both of you and if you find any other issues lease let me know.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 06:41:00 pm by billman »

Offline mattias

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 09:28:15 pm »
Ignition looks about right to me the engine is a 2.5 stroker the same as mine
Is it the lean cruise lambda of 1.05 that makes 38 degrees possible?

It's certainly interesting because I managed better than Motronic did on an Audi S4  using only 28-30 degrees timing, lambda 1.02.
It was not stock, 630 cc/min injectors, tubular exhaust manifold, larger turbo, larger intercooler, etc..

Offline billman

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 10:32:01 pm »
Did you confirmed tdc with timing light as many seen different figures although not so far away.

Offline mattias

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2010, 10:53:36 pm »
Yes, it was confirmed.

Offline billman

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 12:11:30 am »
Yes, it was confirmed.

Can you share this map? Till 0.8 bar i hear no knock by listening directly to the sensor.

Offline mattias

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 12:14:42 am »
I don't think you understand, the engine doesn't knock at these low loads. You can use too much advance and never know it, you will only loose some torque and get higher fuel consumption as a result of pushing the throttle a bit more to compensate.

Offline billman

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2010, 07:52:48 am »
aaa, i see. I thought you meant it knocked.

You tuned on a dyno?
Can you share this map?

@back to topic
What else can cause this sec trigger error?
Engine starts every time with no issues or backfires, cam sensor is new.

Offline GintsK

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2010, 11:38:32 am »
Is it the lean cruise lambda of 1.05 that makes 38 degrees possible?

It's certainly interesting because I managed better than Motronic did on an Audi S4  using only 28-30 degrees timing, lambda 1.02.
It was not stock, 630 cc/min injectors, tubular exhaust manifold, larger turbo, larger intercooler, etc..
I had interesting case when owner of one VW 2L 16V got extremely low consumption on ~2000km trip after he incorrectly orient trigger wheel by ~20deg after engine repair. He got something like 47...55deg at 1.05..1.10 lambda at cruising. Now I put around 45deg with normal 25...30 WOT advance. And owner is very happy. CR 10.5:1 same shape of combustion chamber as 20VT. So I am confused.

Offline mattias

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Re: Audi RS2 trigger error 1.1.81
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2010, 11:54:09 am »
This is why I asked if anyone knew if the lean mixture causes a much slower burn, requiring much more advance - and it probably does so more than I thought. I will try going for leaner mixture and more advance next time.
Wasn't there a thread about this around here?