VEMS Community Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mr_g on August 05, 2017, 05:13:27 pm

Title: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on August 05, 2017, 05:13:27 pm
There have been a lot of years down the road as I am making new vems installation in my new car, I see that still there is no progress on vems 4.0 based on ARM proc.

As I was developing some gadgets like gnss based car alarm systems,  jetski control etc,  I was using atmega128 just like vems. But this is ten years later and atmega is slow and small and absolite embedded controller. And starting of this year I have switched to stm32f105 ARM cortex m3 controller with 2 canbus and USB periferial on-board.

So, as I am working on canbus on many cars with my alarm system. Well actually reverse engineering on canbus on many cars and as my new project car is 2001. Old Astra coupe bertone I woould like to use my knowledge and implement my canbus system in Astra just like in new vw or audi.

So, I would have 5 or 6 ecus around the car (for every door) to control everything over canbus. Why? Because I can. :-)

So let's get to the vems. I need some kind of input output interface to vems so I can relay everything to canbus and back. Vems would just control the engine. Everything else would relie on canbus.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on August 05, 2017, 05:21:55 pm
Ok. Let me explains how I would do this.
I would use any information I can get over aim protocol and relay it to my canbus network.
Also I would emulate tpic6a259 with ARM daughter board to relay some commands over canbus (like fan fuelpump etc)  and also I would remove mcp3208 and emulate it with my ARM daughter board. So I could receive commands and values like throttle pedal through canbus and relay this information to vems.

Vems would think it got analog value from mcp3208 while in fact it would receive it from canbus and ARM daughter board.

I was talking to mwfire to enables me some kind of access to vems through SPI but he said that canbus is pointless and not needed.
I was also thinking of emulating SD card on my ARM daughter board and that way get all the info from vems all the time.

This daughter board card opens many advantages like OBD  emulating. Or even stock ecu engine emulating so gearbox like dsg would work etc.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on August 05, 2017, 05:25:17 pm
I have many ideas. My knowledge of programming embedded systems and canbus is huge.
And I would like to help bring vems to the 21st century but I didn't get any support from the man I know in the vems development team so I am asking here.

I can always go the way I know the best. Reverse engineering. But I think that we could get better resaults if we cooperate.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on August 05, 2017, 05:32:13 pm
Btw I am willing to share my achivement with vems team and maybe bring this device and options to everybody who want new daily car working on vems without losing any feature like a.c. etc dsg and so on.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: gunni on August 07, 2017, 10:44:02 am
Your ambitions to work with VEMS should be welcomed by VEMS. They could get you to write some code without having to give you full access as they are worried that people take the code and use it for themselves I guess. NDA would be obvious.

However, I understand that there is minimal if any more room for improvements (more code) on the Atmega chip currently in the ECU so the Atmega hardware as it is now is pretty much at maximum capacity and has been for a some years. Which I´m sure is clear to anyone seeing the development of the firmware in the last few years. More anytrim stuff, no complete new strategies apart from traction control, an example would be proper ethanol content, i.e. different boost levels, ignition tables, fuel tables etc with varying ethanol content (in my oppinion anytrim is definitely not enough).

Anyway, rumour has it that VEMS is working on introducing a new processor which according to what I remember it is very comparable to what you find in todays medium priced ECUs if not better, this would set of another wave of firmware builds coming out as current strategies and new ones can be built without the current restrictions of the Atmega processor. I don´t know in what form they will introduce it or when.

But VEMS without a doubt can see that the current processor and the firmware it supports and their level of sales are not sustainable for much longer as other cheaper ECUs get better and eat into the same market segment VEMS operates in (ECUmaster, MS3 etc.)

The proposed new processor is from the STM family.

Personally a new processor couldn´t come any sooner.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on August 09, 2017, 12:30:21 pm
Thank you gunni for reply. I'm aware that VEMS is working on 4.0 on a new processor. I hope it is an ARM based one.
I'm aware of mega limitations, so I was proposing a daughter board based on ARM to supersede those limitations.

In the meantime I understood that there is aim2can daughter board based on STM32F103, but there is no schematics or any further documentation about it...
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on August 09, 2017, 07:35:47 pm
Thank you gunni for reply. I'm aware that VEMS is working on 4.0 on a new processor. I hope it is an ARM based one.
I'm aware of mega limitations, so I was proposing a daughter board based on ARM to supersede those limitations.

In the meantime I understood that there is aim2can daughter board based on STM32F103, but there is no schematics or any further documentation about it...

what do you want from it? it is made just to provide can signal to the dash with some main parameters
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on August 09, 2017, 09:55:53 pm
Kamuto, I want to relay commands from outputs to canbus and also want to relay commands from canbus to vems.
So I want virtual analog inputs (pedal, all sort of enabling buttons) to be received from canbus and acknowledged by vems. I would have 14 analog inputs relayed from canbus just by emulating mcp3208 and analog multiplexing.
Also I would relay p259 outputs to canbus and all I could get on aim.
Also daughter board would emulate real obd 2 for legal car inspection.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: fphil on August 10, 2017, 08:28:41 am
.. and let the atmega to only drive the engine, It is more a sister board which has to take care of the outside world than a daughter. I like the concept.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on August 10, 2017, 12:08:48 pm
Kamuto, I want to relay commands from outputs to canbus and also want to relay commands from canbus to vems.
So I want virtual analog inputs (pedal, all sort of enabling buttons) to be received from canbus and acknowledged by vems. I would have 14 analog inputs relayed from canbus just by emulating mcp3208 and analog multiplexing.
Also I would relay p259 outputs to canbus and all I could get on aim.
Also daughter board would emulate real obd 2 for legal car inspection.
hmn, that sounds pretty complicated and vems wont help you on this I believe :) ant this is pretty much impossible on current v3
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on August 10, 2017, 12:37:05 pm
Kamuto, you would be surprised how easy this is... I just need CS_P259 and CS_MCP routed to daughter (sister) board. All other pins are on PROG/LCD port... Well, TX2/RX2 would also be nice to have routed...

And I would have to remove MCP3208, so this daughter board would completely emulate 8 ADC + 6 multiplexed inputs... I could have ADC on daughter board just to cover EGT, all other I could get from canbus. As newer cars do send pedal and all the information through canbus.

And the other way is even easier. I would capture vems commands sent to TPIC6A259, and relay those commands to canbus boards (fans, ac, cluster, etc). Also there is a lot of information in AIM output, so I would relay those as well, and make my own data logging (on tcpip server of course) so I could analyze log at my spare time in comfy sofa.

And for those guys at the technical station, daughter board would emulate OBD2 with the real engine data and VIN and so on...

What do you think about this? Would this be something that you would like to have in your car?
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on August 10, 2017, 12:45:58 pm
And if those VEMS guys, acctually find this usefull, they could make another CS_MCP inputs on CS_CAN so we would get even more inputs (digital and analog).

But mwfire sad that there is no way he would change the firmware just for my Astra... I think that this would change his opinion, because, everything I make for my Astra (complete canbus inside the car for the car without canbus), I am willing to donate to VEMS team in order to get in the team... :)

So I would make:
engine compartment canbus module (to operate fans, ac, lights and everything that vems doesn't)
cluster compartment canbus module (to operate all the switches)
cluster itself (to convert older instrument cluster in canbus)
doors canbus module (to operate locks, windows and mirrors)
hood canbus module (to operate rear lights, pumps, etc).

So through the car there would be only canbus wire and power supply.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on August 10, 2017, 01:26:33 pm
Kamuto, you would be surprised how easy this is... I just need CS_P259 and CS_MCP routed to daughter (sister) board. All other pins are on PROG/LCD port... Well, TX2/RX2 would also be nice to have routed...

And I would have to remove MCP3208, so this daughter board would completely emulate 8 ADC + 6 multiplexed inputs... I could have ADC on daughter board just to cover EGT, all other I could get from canbus. As newer cars do send pedal and all the information through canbus.

And the other way is even easier. I would capture vems commands sent to TPIC6A259, and relay those commands to canbus boards (fans, ac, cluster, etc). Also there is a lot of information in AIM output, so I would relay those as well, and make my own data logging (on tcpip server of course) so I could analyze log at my spare time in comfy sofa.

And for those guys at the technical station, daughter board would emulate OBD2 with the real engine data and VIN and so on...

What do you think about this? Would this be something that you would like to have in your car?

cant imagine board installed in ecu, but yes that's possible, anyway, that will cover astra only :) anyway still possible to program whatever you like it. but I dont think anyone will change current vems fw regarding that.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on August 10, 2017, 01:32:29 pm
anyway fill viki page, pretty much none of devs are siting here :)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on August 11, 2017, 07:12:19 am
Kamuto, you would be surprised how easy this is... I just need CS_P259 and CS_MCP routed to daughter (sister) board. All other pins are on PROG/LCD port... Well, TX2/RX2 would also be nice to have routed...

And I would have to remove MCP3208, so this daughter board would completely emulate 8 ADC + 6 multiplexed inputs... I could have ADC on daughter board just to cover EGT, all other I could get from canbus. As newer cars do send pedal and all the information through canbus.

And the other way is even easier. I would capture vems commands sent to TPIC6A259, and relay those commands to canbus boards (fans, ac, cluster, etc). Also there is a lot of information in AIM output, so I would relay those as well, and make my own data logging (on tcpip server of course) so I could analyze log at my spare time in comfy sofa.

And for those guys at the technical station, daughter board would emulate OBD2 with the real engine data and VIN and so on...

What do you think about this? Would this be something that you would like to have in your car?

cant imagine board installed in ecu, but yes that's possible, anyway, that will cover astra only :) anyway still possible to program whatever you like it. but I dont think anyone will change current vems fw regarding that.

Why not? It's just like SD CARD board.... It is small and plugged on ISPI+LCD port... The funny thing is I don't need them to change fw for 14 analog inputs and 8 digital outputs plus aim all relayed to canbus..

But if they would cooperate, we all would benefit with more than 14 analog inputs relayed from canbus...

I would make it open source and cheap if they don't wont to cooperate.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on August 14, 2017, 01:02:14 am
what would be interesting is to control dsg somehow :))
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on August 14, 2017, 06:56:54 am
That is not the problem if you get all ids that DSG expects from the car. Then we can emulate it.

I did emulate abs in Wrangler to enable Mercedes automatic gearbox to work with mercedes diesel engine...
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on August 14, 2017, 12:51:26 pm
That is not the problem if you get all ids that DSG expects from the car. Then we can emulate it.

I did emulate abs in Wrangler to enable Mercedes automatic gearbox to work with mercedes diesel engine...
anyway i still dont see your wiki page ;)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: gunni on August 19, 2017, 07:39:03 pm
Wiki = VEMS might do something (propably not though)
No Wiki = VEMS won't do anything.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 04, 2017, 10:34:50 am
Here you go. Preliminary daughter board.
Canbus port, KWP port, 2xUART to vems, MCP3208 emulator, 2 A/D inputs, gyro-mems, etc...

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21318816_1357767914343958_1036230811324033606_o.png?oh=9b2d7fc095d1e4453b422f1227a65e72&oe=5A262646)

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21248615_1357767907677292_1920586506893318181_o.png?oh=b7e44dae76f6e75316c271f5d9189c05&oe=5A16C198)

Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 04, 2017, 10:39:47 am
Here is daughter board card for H-bridge (drive by wire)

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21369523_1357769237677159_2771169764975144742_n.png?oh=24ee623d3e31aa5f58bd867a9d4ad15d&oe=5A56932C)

and here is 10x 17A minus output expander (1wire)

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21367092_1357770554343694_222807945491914000_o.png?oh=b16cbd131593c2faba8599365e79eec4&oe=5A1CD2BB)

and here is IO 1wire expander

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21316501_1357767911010625_7623596198997594814_o.png?oh=572f7b12d4bba93165ccdb677841d16e&oe=5A14EE1D)

I love making small gadgets.. :D
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on September 04, 2017, 11:15:29 am
Here is daughter board card for H-bridge (drive by wire)

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21369523_1357769237677159_2771169764975144742_n.png?oh=24ee623d3e31aa5f58bd867a9d4ad15d&oe=5A56932C)

and here is 10x 17A minus output expander (1wire)

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21367092_1357770554343694_222807945491914000_o.png?oh=b16cbd131593c2faba8599365e79eec4&oe=5A1CD2BB)

and here is IO 1wire expander

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21316501_1357767911010625_7623596198997594814_o.png?oh=572f7b12d4bba93165ccdb677841d16e&oe=5A14EE1D)

I love making small gadgets.. :D
folowing that :)) btw, can I get H-bridge files? :D
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: MWfire on September 04, 2017, 10:44:16 pm
IMHO H bridge driver need some improvements.  First there isn't any resistor between gate drive and driver. This  will kill mosfet during to fast closing. Second P and N mosfet are driven with same signal, this will give very big current during switching(N type(5ns+18ns) is much faster than P type(26ns+41ns)).
I don't see any capacitor on driver (tc4428), a lest 100nF is need. Also during turning of the DBW, energy from spring will make power(current). Because there isn't a capacitor and surge protector diode, that current will fry mosfets and driver.
Also heat sink for mosfet is to small.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 05, 2017, 11:54:41 am
2mwfire: AP4506GEH have protection diodes inside... http://www.a-power.com.tw/files/AP_ProductData/PD_File/AP4506GEH.pdf

TC4428 http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/20001422G.pdf

OK, 100nF can be added between GND and +15 below second AP4506. I forgot about that.

Heat sink is VEMS board because this boards solders on VEMS board exactly below IGN7-4 transistor places on VEMS board.

I asked you about current spikes while switching and you smiled at me about that... Now you are saying that I was right about currents.. :D
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 06, 2017, 12:03:38 pm
OK. So I have redefined the board. I have added IRF5305 so it doesn't need an external relay for power on (safety output P259 connect internally to Is pad), and 4 resistors in parallel with diodes to cope with Mosfet dead time. If you don't have outside flyback diode, you can simply add on 30V diode over +30 and GND... Ip is internally connected on PWM..

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21368601_1359484027505680_6712953671358067315_o.png?oh=9af9c486bc9d1af71133e682fab77d4a&oe=5A51A9D6)

It is only 33x25mm in size and it solders on VEMS board. The bottom layer is GND all the way for better cooling and soldering on VEMS you get to use pins 10,11 for output and 12 for power supply for ETC.

Here is how it is positioned...

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21369020_1359484070839009_2496145685896431345_o.jpg?oh=f179a984a636cae6a2afefaae15da70c&oe=5A146AA8)

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21316103_1359484030839013_3517286303434998291_o.png?oh=f00364a6352dbd4ab8198e886ea8418f&oe=5A1F02D2)

Fire, do you have any other complaint before I make another PCB's? What do you think?
2Kamuto: Yes of course. When MWfire confirms that it's ok, I will send you the files... I'm making myself a few pieces, and I could send you one PCB when it is done... :)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 06, 2017, 01:41:00 pm
Here you go.. Latest version with better cooling, and added little mosfet N for safety output (I259 connected directly from VEMS PCB). I just hate many wires inside VEMS housing...

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21457582_1359542917499791_8584480695578759820_o.png?oh=859ad1ed447a2c0af1d22ef99a13c451&oe=5A17541E)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 08, 2017, 01:25:13 pm
The final testing position of pins on canbus daughter board before sending PCB to manufaturer.
(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21368752_1361246520662764_7527548167765443463_o.jpg?oh=9c1a9f1b768249fce7e71531015ec15a&oe=5A50E427)

The final testing position of pins on H bridge daughter board.
(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21427142_1361246517329431_1761572900707735604_o.jpg?oh=12740151078b2b0446b677821ec7b316&oe=5A4F6377)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: wersch on September 08, 2017, 08:04:19 pm
Nice job!
Vems should really consider you offer.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 11, 2017, 10:12:02 am
Thank you wersch.

I have had some new ideas and browsed through the board and added KWP2000 support, and rotated connector because stepper chip on VEMS was in the same position... :) I think this one is going to PCB manufacturer...

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21587189_1364070977046985_5417423276664855005_o.png?oh=c125b462919bbe2c3f36c2c20fc47a74&oe=5A4FE925)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on September 11, 2017, 04:19:16 pm
it gets more and more interesting :))
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: wersch on September 11, 2017, 05:04:13 pm
Where are you from and are you planning to sell this solution?
It seems very interesting  ;)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 11, 2017, 05:46:11 pm
I'm from Croatia, Zagreb. MWfire is my neighbour :)
I'm interested in some kind of cooperation, and I would be glad if somebody likes my boards and wants to use it...

I have connected this way my VEMS:
MCP3208_CH

0 (ch1)   TPS2
1 (ch2)   PPS1/2
2 (ch3)   FUEL_PRESS
3 (ch4)   A/C_PRESS
4 (ch5)   EGT1
5 (ch6)   IAT_TURBO
6 (ch7)   MUX_A
7 (ch8)   MUX_B

And plan to get multiplexed signals over canbus and this daughter board to send it to VEMS (S259-1/2 are connected for mux)...

A1   
A2   OIL_PRESS
A3   A/C-ON
A4   TC-ON

B1   LPG-ON
B2   ALS-ON
B3   Shift-Cut
B4   LC-ON

So we would see how it would go... :D I will notify you of progress.
Later I would move PPS1/2 to A1 over canbus...

I have 4 possible ways to tap-in VEMS and to pass it my information (MCP3208 ch7 and ch8) as it was passed by MC3208:
1. Use 2xDAC on ARM to send voltage to MCP3208 on ch7 and ch8.
2. Use 74HC243 (on bottom side of daughter board) to cut MISO line from MC3208 to VEMS and tap in MISO line at the apropriate time.
3. Use 1k resistor on MISO line of MC3208 to VEMS and tap-in MISO line at the appropriate time.
4. Convince VEMS guys to add new set of inputs over CS_CAN and SPI... :D

1. would work 100% but that way I have double (or triple) A/D-D/A-A/D conversion and it could be used for digital signals, not so much  for analog signals. But I'm convinced that I could make 3. to work also... Anyway, this daughter board is pretty versatile and supports it all. I gave it a lot of thoughts to make it happen.

As I described earlier in my posts how I want it to be used... Also, I plan to use a few DS18B20 over 1-wire line to measure temperatures of oil, water in engine cooler, in charge cooler, in charge cooler's water cooler, ambient, etc. I want to log in all these temperatures also IAT temperature before and after charge cooler to see its efficiency...

And all these collected data I would send over CANBUS to my central body computer with GPRS and send it on server...

I have added serial SPI flash on daughter board for smaller logs if something happens to the engine. Also added 3D gyro and accelerometer. GPS data would be received over CANBUS and relayed to VEMS over RX2 if needed...

I could make relay VEMS TUNE link over GPRS/CANBUS if somebody is interested in this... :D

Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: fphil on September 11, 2017, 07:35:20 pm
Brilliant  :P
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on September 12, 2017, 12:10:27 pm
maybe someone would like to redesign current vems ecu to use these connectors and make it compact as possible?
it would be interesting to see how much smaller it can get :))
https://www.corsa-technic.com/item.php?item_id=535&category_id=108
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Sprocket on September 13, 2017, 10:47:19 pm
Plenty room in the current Alubos  case to fit 2x EC36. Tyco even do a Red connector with a different gender  to prevent the wrong plug to socket mishap. Rover used these on their MEMS controllers. The board tracks just need moving a little on the V3 to get a nice fit. I did a hack on one of my old boxes and wired the extra pins internally.

One thing to discuss though about shrinking the size of the box is the transistors. Most modern stuff I have seen use similar to DPAK chips and heat sink to the board...............
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on September 14, 2017, 08:26:36 am
Plenty room in the current Alubos  case to fit 2x EC36. Tyco even do a Red connector with a different gender  to prevent the wrong plug to socket mishap. Rover used these on their MEMS controllers. The board tracks just need moving a little on the V3 to get a nice fit. I did a hack on one of my old boxes and wired the extra pins internally.

One thing to discuss though about shrinking the size of the box is the transistors. Most modern stuff I have seen use similar to DPAK chips and heat sink to the board...............
yes I found out exactly the same info about the connectors, anyway those amp is the way to go, currently wiring some emtron ecus, jesus what a pleasure to work with them, easy connect disconnect, fast crimping, and easy pin fitting, and they are pretty much cheap these times. to have dpak's on board would be nice anyway would be interesting to see how much of free space we get for other stuff if we go like 4 layer board now, or similar, with same components, exept inj and ign transistors who would be dpack.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 15, 2017, 04:01:33 pm
4 layer board isn't needed. All you need is stronger ARM processor with 100 or 144 pins. And VEMS can be 50% of curent size. DPACK's on bottom and logic on top layer...
AVR is ooooold technology. I didn't see flyback pin and special GND wiring anywhere, only on VEMS. It was good in 2005, or 2010, but there are many hotter boy in town for less money. EMTRON is a killer with 200+MHz ARM for the same amount of money.

VEMS isn't enough for me, for 2001 Astra, with a few special request, how could it drive 2015 BMW daily driver with all electronics enabled. It can't...
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: fphil on September 15, 2017, 08:02:14 pm
I am not sure that such a fast chip  of 200+MHz is needed to control a car engine which is anyway a slow process. Much better to have a clean software without bugs (which is far to be obvious) and easy to  handle. But if the matter is car control, this is another thing.
About the grounds wiring , apart the sensor ground, I did not understand why a sole big Power+GRD dedicated plug was not set.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on September 16, 2017, 01:11:11 am
4 layer board isn't needed. All you need is stronger ARM processor with 100 or 144 pins. And VEMS can be 50% of curent size. DPACK's on bottom and logic on top layer...
AVR is ooooold technology. I didn't see flyback pin and special GND wiring anywhere, only on VEMS. It was good in 2005, or 2010, but there are many hotter boy in town for less money. EMTRON is a killer with 200+MHz ARM for the same amount of money.

VEMS isn't enough for me, for 2001 Astra, with a few special request, how could it drive 2015 BMW daily driver with all electronics enabled. It can't...

what are you talking emtron is a killer for same amount of money? :D
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: gunni on September 16, 2017, 09:08:31 am
4 layer board isn't needed. All you need is stronger ARM processor with 100 or 144 pins. And VEMS can be 50% of curent size. DPACK's on bottom and logic on top layer...
AVR is ooooold technology. I didn't see flyback pin and special GND wiring anywhere, only on VEMS. It was good in 2005, or 2010, but there are many hotter boy in town for less money. EMTRON is a killer with 200+MHz ARM for the same amount of money.

VEMS isn't enough for me, for 2001 Astra, with a few special request, how could it drive 2015 BMW daily driver with all electronics enabled. It can't...

You can´t expect a sub 1000euro ECU package to run a 2015 car, any 2015 car.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: fphil on September 16, 2017, 09:19:43 am
Besides the 700 channels available etc  offered by KV16 there are some features I would be happy to get: better power and outputs protection, integrated scope, 3 axis accelerometer. :P
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: MWfire on September 16, 2017, 12:01:56 pm
4 layer board isn't needed. All you need is stronger ARM processor with 100 or 144 pins. And VEMS can be 50% of curent size. DPACK's on bottom and logic on top layer...
AVR is ooooold technology. I didn't see flyback pin and special GND wiring anywhere, only on VEMS. It was good in 2005, or 2010, but there are many hotter boy in town for less money. EMTRON is a killer with 200+MHz ARM for the same amount of money.

VEMS isn't enough for me, for 2001 Astra, with a few special request, how could it drive 2015 BMW daily driver with all electronics enabled. It can't...

emtron was engine killer for 2 years because of lot of bugs(fuel temp bug, fuel pressure bug, bad ground bug...). A similar price, lol :)))

And you can't drive old opel engine from 87 year with vems, wtf?
Vems can run bmw v8 from e82 with 9 vanos valves, 2x DBW ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwEVNfQCmbg

And there isn't a ecu how can drive car from 2015 with all functionality. That can only do OEM ecu design for that car.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 16, 2017, 04:22:18 pm
Well, you could drive any 2015 car with full functionality, but that requires a lot of time and a lot of sniffing. I gave a solution for VEMS 3.8 to bring it to 21 century... I am open for cooperation, so it's up to you guys... As I said, I have a lot of experience with canbus, and a lot of hours sniffing CANBUS.

Anyway, here is another small gadget for Canbus. USB->CANBUS with ARM STM32F103. 4x1cm. It can be used for anything... PCB's are sent to the manufacturing process. When I get them I would post some pics..

(https://scontent.fzag2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21740221_1625373867529269_7195618365264249605_n.jpg?oh=1b6ac7f1e75934e68cdcd0c7a73331f5&oe=5A47AB8F)

(https://scontent.fzag2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21751481_1625373870862602_7318390886010526753_n.jpg?oh=f0c05afe1b66d014de023ac32dfe3e6e&oe=5A5D14B9)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: MWfire on September 16, 2017, 04:30:48 pm
Can usb adapters are very cheap on ebay
https://www.kanda.com/products/Lawicel/CANUSB.html
http://copperhilltech.com/blog/controller-area-network-can-prototyping-with-teensy-3132/
https://www.tindie.com/products/protofusion/canable-usb-to-can-bus-adapter/

but if you don't know what you need to send(over can), they are useless. Because of that P&P ecus are very expensive. Need big team and lot of time to find out needed information.
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on September 16, 2017, 08:52:50 pm
I'm using raspberry for sniffing can :)) linux rasp pi3 and canutils
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on September 18, 2017, 09:05:27 am
This is something similar. But mine is better, smaller (40x12mm) and cheaper... :D
https://www.tindie.com/products/protofusion/canable-usb-to-can-bus-adapter/

This is sent to PCB manufacturer. I have a customer request on a project and this is required... It has free UART on bottom.

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21743129_1626905037376152_3728486634796167458_n.jpg?oh=ce3fe560bd4465882f810c2f107ec58f&oe=5A5EE576)
(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21558575_1626905090709480_6882164238022991180_n.jpg?oh=62f2fb96ef3179acec1e5cacdcceaca5&oe=5A5E3EDC)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on September 25, 2017, 05:16:14 pm
any news on dbw?
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on October 09, 2017, 07:48:31 am
Yes, I got everything from china. I'm still waiting for some headers for daughter board...

Outputs board.
(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21994317_1381057012015048_5341487697803394680_o.jpg?oh=7b09765948d17beb49087d373e8ddc99&oe=5A88771D)

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22047760_1381057022015047_4980329763587012247_o.jpg?oh=f134ca6e2eb5cc104ab8a0128c41f1f1&oe=5A3C5BE9)

VEMS H bridge

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22047726_1381057045348378_2300086249254256212_o.jpg?oh=257d54014aa334c3234ce4aac16e8387&oe=5A3BD47A)

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22048179_1381057168681699_5585063351308629247_o.jpg?oh=0660b8a101e8ba3a5237836dff7aeb0a&oe=5A3B26B6)

soldered on VEMS:
(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22042139_1381057282015021_97825932044774731_o.jpg?oh=244818427515ae7cc332fb1f72bbf16e&oe=5A41C0D3)
(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22104656_1381057292015020_2215339959841707265_o.jpg?oh=160cf2cb4c0ad7f8cf6cd2a9231c573d&oe=5A84DC1B)

VEMS daughter board (not soldered completely)

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21994460_1381057172015032_8975043334921824942_o.jpg?oh=a883b7c7adba0b8e6f39dc3e142d5b95&oe=5A7D0509)

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22051036_1381057165348366_713261901000583313_o.jpg?oh=a5d0abc168f7e56b78a412980e905f47&oe=5A748CD6)

Programming connector

(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22095960_1381057278681688_5304512252975923859_o.jpg?oh=4a7f371f227b3eac9e4b5d045b5a99c8&oe=5A421FB1)

I'm working on something for e-motorcycle so I'dont have much spare time (about 15x15cm, 100 pin ARM STM32F105VCT6, 2xCANBUS, 50V power supply, 13V 20A output, 10x power outputs, etc)...
(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22281592_1389393267848089_3209728411453730624_n.png?oh=6f72a416546caa3e43a56cad47b936c0&oe=5A7769DB)
(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22310330_1389393271181422_6031562602737734028_n.png?oh=c8c089bb274bb3d5d2e874dc83f5555d&oe=5A3B3854)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on October 09, 2017, 11:56:59 am
And here is something I was working for my friend. For money machines. USB HUB, UARTS and CCTALK.
(https://scontent.fzag3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22310419_1389517767835639_6003354591557872034_n.jpg?oh=959a76a5a0993f66fb77d586ee418a40&oe=5A797B81)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on October 11, 2017, 08:43:09 am
This is something I was working on for some time... :D

https://www.facebook.com/smscommander/videos/762660193944225/ (https://www.facebook.com/smscommander/videos/762660193944225/)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: Kamuto on October 19, 2017, 02:15:38 pm
so, how's dbw? got it working?
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on December 18, 2019, 12:22:15 pm
In action:

(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79530373_2532795386841199_9152512317785636864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQkKcyYdaj45-KQAcnyoO_TDjhxV6fsfMvtdV3QIgzlaneFeXR29eUKDaVdiKcxHTPw&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=1d020fb53137d1161f188085b57659af&oe=5E66BA8D)

Programming for the first time:

(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80813889_2532795520174519_5858636039454720000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_oc=AQlkqLafgOwDJe61UwFF_5l209FfrPkm3gLlv8hRumS2sChf-fh0MwBPOVH9vLaX6BY&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=99c33810af091e4f4e906f01cd269e24&oe=5E78F3B6)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: mr_g on December 18, 2019, 12:25:43 pm
so, how's dbw? got it working?

(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/79840825_2532803143507090_5069943373754793984_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQlHX4XwmucZIRDUWG-pCvwuGgLA7TJvPwHc1BN7KVS7Jy2MMqqnfjQrBNemYZI2eLs&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=612bef79c7a658f0d1dab9206d527efa&oe=5E7D68E5)
Title: Re: Stm32f105 ARM based dauther board for vems for canbus
Post by: gunni on December 24, 2019, 07:21:58 am
So where are you with this and what was the goal again?