racelogic traction control install = lean AFR's

[multiplex]

wanted to see if anyone has had any experience with race logic traction control systems.

for those not familiar, it cuts engine power by dropping out fuel injectors until traction is regained.

i'm going to contact racelogic directly about this, but was wondering how VEMS hardware / configs could effect this (if at all)

I'm not exactly sure of the circuitry used in the racelogic box, but during install you cut the wires going to your injectors, and then splice the box inbetween. It then interrupts the signal

I have connectors to bypass the unit.

With the unit connected, my idle AFR goes up to around 1.25, where it is normal just under 1.

the car doesnt want to idle!

i can't see retuning as the solution, so was looking for other ideas

thanks.

[[email protected]]

Can you measure a voltage drop across the control's connection?

What sort of flyback do you have?

Rob

[multiplex]

i have the daughter board for flyback.

i'll measure across the junction - good thought.

was gonna maybe hook my scope up too.

[[email protected]]

Jorgen was thinking that the flyback voltage may be effected by the race logic, it may be that you can adjust the injector characteristics or replace the daughter board with the 30V TS Diode (and adjust the injector characteristics) to overcome this issue.

Rob

[multiplex]

i was able to scope an injector today

first plot is at idle, with racelogic jumpered out



This plot is reving the engine (since it won't idle), with the racelogic spliced in



definitely changing the flyback characteristics

any ideas here?

[[email protected]]

You're getting a much better flyback voltage in the second instance.  This means that your injectors are closing faster and consequently getting less fuel.  The flyback difference is similar to that of fitting a 30V transient suppression diode, so in the first instance use the injector settings suggested for the TS diode:
Inj open time should be 0
Inj rampup_battfac must be 4080

Then its a case of tuning your Inj effective rampup value.  Try steps of 250 to find the point where the engine starts to idle crisply, then steps of 50 to 25 until you find the cleanest point.

It will definately be worth getting a 30V TS diode in your flyback line.

[multiplex]

wow you guys are awesome. I would never have interpreted the graphs that way.  So you are saying the flyback looks better with the traction control plugged in?

I have a diode here, that i've never installed.  Will do that.

I plan to go to P&H here pretty shortly with low imp injectors. I wonder how that will effect everything.

[[email protected]]

The flyback looks better with the traction control, no doubt they have a flyback system built-in so that the injectors can be cut without back EMF issues.

Try the settings changes first, then see if the diode makes any difference for you.

How are you going to use P&H?  There is no need, one 6R8 resistor per channel and the TS diode is all that you need, I have several systems running like this faultlessly.

[multiplex]

thanks rob.  i hope to get to try the settings tomorrow

i bought the resistors (at the same time as the diode), but then have been looking at the MS add on P&H board. Same one that sprocket (i think thats his name) installed.

resistors will work for sure, i just prefer the high tech solution (which usually gets me in trouble)

[Jorgen]

It is pretty clear that our drive stages is not used when the Racelogic unit is connected, the Racelogic unit has internal drive stages that takes over all flyback and driving of the injectors.

You only notice a difference as you use an old flyback version that was only used for a fairly short time (but that was sold as an option for a long time in the webshop). Dealers has only used this type of flyback for odd applications as we know that it cause poor injector control.

You don't need to modify your flyback, it's not used for the injectors when the racelogic unit is connected. You can probably forget about the P&H board as well, the racelogic unit only monitor the ECU injector channels and then drive it's own injector outputs with the same PW.

However, if you want to be able to remove the Racelogic unit from the car it would be good to have the high voltage flyback as it will make the injector behavior similar to what you see with the Racelogic unit.

Jörgen Karlsson
Gothenburg, Sweden.

[multiplex]

made the recommended changes, and the car runs great. thanks guys!

traction control is pretty fun too 

yeah i think i will just run the low imp injectors with the resistors and diode. any idea on what devices are inside the racelogic box?

[[email protected]]

I've no idea what Racelogic have in their traction control system, it does show that their flyback is nicely sorted.

[multiplex]

Just to follow up on some info left hanging here...

I talked to the maker of the Peak and Hold board, and he confirmed your thoughts on the traction box getting in the way.

I then contacted race logic, and they provided me this information - might be useful to someone down the road

Hi Jason,
 
What ohmage of injectors are you intending to use? Anything less than 4ohm and our box can't handle it  I'm afraid.
 
The advice you've been given is correct - the peak and hold setup won't work with our unit either. And if you were to use resistors in line, you may well get the TC unit to work OK but you'd be negating the advantage of using low impedance injectors in the first place.
 
Essentially, if you want to use RLTC then you need to be using medium to high impedance injectors, with a standard saturation type signal. Traction isn't compatible with pulse-width modulation control-limiting the injector current, or peak and hold. However, if you've got ringback issues this can be dealt with by fitting a coil module.
 
Mike.

So it sounds like larger, high impedance injectors are in my future

Thanks everyone for their help on this.

[dnb]

Does the racelogic box work by "simply" skipping injection events at the right time?

If so then what's to stop you using the racelogic box to trigger the launch control input of VEMS with the launch soft limiter set at 1500 RPM or so?

When traction control intervention is required, VEMS will cut the fuel for you - leaving you free to have whatever injector solution you want.

[multiplex]

This could probably work, but at that point it would be nice just to do everything in VEMS (hopefully one day, monitor wheel speed,etc)

The traction box has 3 or 4 levels of fuel cut that it moves through sequentially until it regains the amount of traction you have selected (in percentage, 20%, 15%, 10%, 5%, and 'wet' on my box - they offer a continuous option also).  I've found 5% to work pretty nicely.

The first level might cut every 4th injector fire on one cyclinder. each level is definable, but from the factory it is set to increase the number of cuts each level. second level every 3rd, etc.  They also rotate which cylinder is cut so you don't get cold spots.